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Apr-17-08 | | KingG: <TheBB> I think the Closed Sicilian, 3.Bb5, and the Grand Prix are all good responses to the Sicilian, with the Closed Sicilian giving perhaps the best attacking chances. As <unsound> said, Spassky games are a good place to start to get an idea of how to play the opening. If you do play the Grand Prix, just make sure that you play the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 - 3.f4, because I don't think 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5! is much fun for White. Another thing about the Grand Prix is that you may have to know some theory in order to make the most of the opening. Otherwise Black can get quite an easy game. I do however have to agree with <square dance> that I find it strange that an 1.e4 player wouldn't want to play an open sicilian. There is a lot of theory, but most of it isn't that relevent unless you are playing on a fairly high level. At the lower and intermediate levels, the better tactical player will almost always win. |
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Apr-17-08
 | | keypusher: <the BB> I used to play 1. e4 c5 2. b3 a lot. I gave it up because I think it's really not good. But if you want to try it, you should definitely check out this guy's games with it: Tamaz Gelashvili |
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Apr-17-08
 | | keypusher: <Gelashvili> I see Edwin Meyer anticipated me. <I do however have to agree with <square dance> that I find it strange that an 1.e4 player wouldn't want to play an open sicilian. There is a lot of theory, but most of it isn't that relevent unless you are playing on a fairly high level. At the lower and intermediate levels, the better tactical player will almost always win.> <KingG><square dance> You both may be right. I am an e4 player who doesn't like the Open Sicilian because (i) I don't like tons of theory and (ii) the defense seems to give Black a lot of long-term pluses. Also, <whatthefat> and I crunched the database numbers and observed that White scored worse against the Sicilian than against any 1. e4 or 1. d4 opening. |
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Apr-18-08 | | KingG: <keypusher> <I am an e4 player who doesn't like the Open Sicilian because (i) I don't like tons of theory and (ii) the defense seems to give Black a lot of long-term pluses.> I agree with both your points, but I would argue that they are not that important. As far as the theory goes, I think it's Black who is the one who really needs to worry about it. If he doesn't know his theory, he could get destroyed in 20 moves, whereas if White doesn't know the theory the worst that usually happens is that he allows Black to equalise. And the fact is not that many people are really that well booked up on anything other than the absolute main lines. I think everyone should at least try the open Sicilian for a while and then analyse their losses to see if it really was because of the opening that they lost. I have a feeling that the opening probably doesn't have much to do with it in the vast majority of cases. As for the long term chances Black gets, I think that is more than compensated by the short term ones White gets. <Also, <whatthefat> and I crunched the database numbers and observed that White scored worse against the Sicilian than against any 1. e4 or 1. d4 opening.> This doesn't really surprise me, but did the anti-sicilians do any better than the open sicilians? From a practical point of view I do have to admit that I see the advantage in anti-sicilians: you don't need to know what to do against all the Black systems, you get positions that you are probably more familiar with than you opponent, and many Black players often feel some psychological discomfort when facing anti sicilians(even reportidly Kasparov!). However, I feel that the open sicilian should be played for several reasons: 1)It's good for learning and improving tactical skill. It should be played for the same reasons beginners are often recommended to play gambits. 2) It's fun. You get plenty of interesting games, and far more opportunity to sacrifice material than in most other openings. This also gives good practical chances because most people aren't that good at defending so your attacks have good chances of succeeding. 3)You get some variety. You aren't always playing the same types of positions over and over again. I guess this is most important if you play a lot of blitz. 4)I think it's good for your chess culture to be familiar with such a mainstream opening. I know that this has little practical relevence, but I tend to value it quite highly. 5)It's the principled reply to 1...c5. This is also quite meaningless from the practical point of view, but I believe in not being afraid of openings, and playing what I think is the best move. Of course, if you believe that some other response to the Sicilian is objectively better then there is no sense in playing anything else. |
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Apr-18-08
 | | keypusher: <<Also, <whatthefat> and I crunched the database numbers and observed that White scored worse against the Sicilian than against any 1. e4 or 1. d4 opening.> This doesn't really surprise me, but did the anti-sicilians do any better than the open sicilians?> We didn't check, but I've seen figures elsewhere indicating that the anti-Sicilians do worse (admittedly, one reason for that is low-rated players using the Grand Prix against high-rated players). <As for the long term chances Black gets, I think that is more than compensated by the short term ones White gets.> It depends what kind of chances you value, I guess. Maybe I'm really not an e4 player. Very good post, by the way. |
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Apr-18-08 | | TheBB: Well, I usually play for long term advantages, and I tend to avoid tactical lines. I guess I don't sound like your typical 1. e4 player then, but that's just how it's become :). Thanks for all the tips!
Oh, and I <have> played a fair amount of open Sicilian, and I'm not really faring so badly with it either, I just don't feel comfortable, that's all. |
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Apr-18-08 | | KingG: <keypusher> <Maybe I'm really not an e4 player.> Well, I don't know about that. If you feel comfortable with your repertoire, then that's all that matters. Out of interest, have you ever tried 1.d4, 1.c4 or 1.Nf3? I have to admit that I am being a bit stereotypical with my 'real 1.e4 player' comments. I'm always defending 1.d4 players against the charge that they are just looking to take play into an endgame as soon as possible, and here I am stereotyping 1.e4 players as blood-crazed attackers. Maybe I should have said that for those who like open, attacking play, they should play the open sicilian, whereas those who prefer closed, manoevering play should perhaps go for an anti-sicilian. The problem is I tend to think that no matter what you do, Black will always have good long-term chances on the Q-side, so you more or less need to attack on the K-side anyway. And if that's the case then I think it's best to go with the open sicilian. Although I must admit that the closed sicilian and the grand prix offer good practical chances of building up a dangerous attack, particularly against an unprepared opponent. <Very good post, by the way.> Thanks. <TheBB> <Oh, and I <have> played a fair amount of open Sicilian, and I'm not really faring so badly with it either, I just don't feel comfortable, that's all.> In that case you are probably right to look for an alternative. I guess my post was mainly directed against those that want to avoid the open sicilian without really ever having tried it. |
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Apr-18-08 | | whiskeyrebel: In light of these last several posts, I'd like to remind folks as a frequent Nimzo-Larsen player that there are many lines in which white gets an early kingside attack. If you want to attack you can open with d4, c4 or whatever. Personally, I wouldn't want to play either side of the open sicilian. Its a matter of perspective. My opponents are usually in the 1800-2200 range and there's so much theory so many moves deep. However, if you usually face opposition a few hundred points lower, they probably aren't going to know much theory at all. Either way, play to have fun I say whether it means avoiding excessive study work or attacking like a rabid animal. |
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Apr-19-08
 | | keypusher: <<KingG><keypusher> <Maybe I'm really not an e4 player.> Well, I don't know about that. If you feel comfortable with your repertoire, then that's all that matters. Out of interest, have you ever tried 1.d4, 1.c4 or 1.Nf3?> Yes, 20+ years ago when I played in tournaments I generally played 1. d4 and tried to win by some sort of stereotyped positional plan. Then I read (from Ken Smith?) that you should play 1. e4 to work on your tactics, and since I regularly got squashed tactically, I decided to switch to 1. e4. It worked well enough, except against the Sicilian. I bought Nunn's <Beating the Sicilian>, but...the Sicilian beat me. I also bought a book on 2. c3, but I fared even worse, partly because I just couldn't believe for a second that 2. c3 was the best move. Then I stopped playing competitively for a decade or so. When I started playing internet chess in the late 90s, 3. d4 worked pretty well until I started meeting strong opponents. For all my chess sins, I am not one to overestimate the importance of the opening, but in open Sicilians but I couldn't shake the feeling that the future belonged to Black, which was tough for me, because the games I love are when I succeed in trading momentary discomfort for long-term advantage. Inspired by Gelashvili, I tried 2. b3, but succeeded only in proving that I was no Gelashvili. I've tinkered with other ways to open a chess game. I fell in love with Alekhine's Defense as Black, so I started playing 1. g3 occasionally, trying to reach an Alekhine's reversed. Occasionally I reached a Sicilian reversed, which generally worked out very well -- all those nice Sicilian positional pluses, without so much theory. So 1. c4 would be a natural choice, but the Symmetrical English doesn't appeal to me at all. I don't want to switch to 1. d4 because I think it makes no sense for a player of my modest strength to take the time completely revamp his opening repertoire, when he is still losing so many games because of two-move oversights. Bottom line, I guess, is that I agree I need to suck it up and play 3. d4 against the Sicilian, since I like playing against all the other responses to 1. e4 (though I tend to shy away from the Ruy Lopez). Something relatively slow and positional against the Najdorf would be helpful. |
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Apr-19-08 | | acirce: <Something relatively slow and positional against the Najdorf would be helpful.> 6.g3! has worked for me :-)
I mainly play 1.d4 or 1.Nf3 these days but occasionally go back to 1.e4. But just like you I've realized I don't really like to meet the Sicilian. Irrational perhaps but so it is. All other openings are quite fine, especially the Ruy (seems I'm unlike you in that regard). <but in open Sicilians but I couldn't shake the feeling that the future belonged to Black, which was tough for me, because the games I love are when I succeed in trading momentary discomfort for long-term advantage.> Exactly.
<Inspired by Gelashvili, I tried 2. b3, but succeeded only in proving that I was no Gelashvili.> I think after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6, 3.b3 is quite playable. The point of course being that Black will have wasted a tempo if he plays ..e6-e5 to block the diagonal for the fianchettoed bishop. |
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Apr-19-08
 | | keypusher: <6.g3! has worked for me :-)> Thanks! I will look into it. The only example I know is Matulovic vs Fischer, 1968, but surely that is not the final word. <I think after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6, 3.b3 is quite playable.> I will look at that too. Though I think ...e5 is only one of White's problems in this opening. |
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Apr-19-08 | | Akavall: <keypusher> You should play the Wing Gambit, if it works for you, great! If it doesn't, you can switch back to the open Sicilian, and you will feel much better about it, trust me :). |
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Apr-20-08
 | | keypusher: <Akavall: <keypusher> You should play the Wing Gambit, if it works for you, great! If it doesn't, you can switch back to the open Sicilian, and you will feel much better about it, trust me :).> Well, given all those Evans Gambits I've played, 1. e4 c5 2. b4 does seem worth a look too... |
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Apr-20-08 | | TheBB: Well, my first game in this variation was certainly a success. [Event "rated standard match"]
[Site "freechess.org"]
[Date "2008.04.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "TheBB"]
[Black "pokrate"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "1874"]
[BlackElo "1794"]
[ECO "B20"]
[TimeControl "900+5"]
1. e4 c5 2. b3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. Nc3 Qe5+ 5. Be2 Nf6 6. Nf3 Qc7 7. O-O e5 8. Bc4 Be7 9. Re1 Bg4 10. Nb5 Qd8 pokrate resigns 1-0 |
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Apr-20-08 | | KingG: <So 1. c4 would be a natural choice, but the Symmetrical English doesn't appeal to me at all.> Yeah, that's partly why I asked. Given that you like Black's position so much in the Sicilian, I would have thought 1.c4 would be a natural choice. I'm not sure the symmetrical english should discourage you so much though. I think the lines involving a quick d4 are quite interesting, although I guess it depends whether you want to play against a hedgehog formation or not.
Personally, I'm not so keen on 1.c4 because I don't like giving Black King-side chances in the reversed Sicilian after 1.c4 e5. I guess it shouldn't really be that much to worry about since it's not as dangerous as playing the Black side of a Sicilian, but with White I generally prefer to do that attacking myself. <Something relatively slow and positional against the Najdorf would be helpful.> I agree with <acirce>'s recommendation of 6.g3. Black needs to know what he's doing to be able to get counterplay, and it's very flexible from White's point of view. The traditional recommendation is 6.Be2 of course, but against 6...e6 that can become very sharp and theoretical. <Akavall> <You should play the Wing Gambit, if it works for you, great!> Hmm. Is this what I should expect next time we play? ;-) |
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Apr-20-08 | | Akavall: <KingG> Not if the next time we play is any time soon :). I think the Wing Gambit is fun, but the lines that we play are even more fun. |
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Sep-27-08 | | just a kid: Even Fischer used the NLA! |
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Sep-27-08 | | just a kid: Here is a game I played with the NLA a while ago.
White:Tyler Larsen AKA:just a kid
Black:NN
White rating:1269
Black rating:1265
1.b3 e5 2.Bb2 Nc6 3.e4 d5 4.exd5 Qxd5 5.c4 Qd6 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Qc2 Nd4 8.Qd3 Bf5 9.Nb5 Bxd3 10.Nxd6+ Bxd6 11.Bxd3 0-0 12.0-0-0 Rfe8 13.f3 Bc5 14.Ne2 Rad8 15.Nxd4 exd4 16.Rde1 Kf8 17.Kd1 Re7 18.Rxe7 Kxe7 19.Re1 Kd6 20.b4 Bxb4 21.Bxd4 Kc6 22.Be4+ Nxe4 23.Rxe4 f6 24.Kc2 Bc5 25.Bxc5 Kxc5 26.Re7 Kxc4 27.Rxc7+ Kd4 28.Rxg7 Rd5 29.Rxb7 Ra5 30.Rd7+ 1-0. |
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Oct-25-08 | | TheBB: I've been using the 2. b3 variation against the Sicilian for a while now, with some ups and downs. This game was one of the more fun ones. 1. e4 c5 2. b3 Nc6 3. Bb2 d6 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Nf3 Be7 7. d4 cxd4 8. Nxd4 O-O 9. Nxc6 bxc6 10. Bd3 e5 11. fxe5 dxe5 12. Qd2 Qc7 13. O-O-O Be6 14. h3  click for larger view13... c5 15. Nd5 Nxd5 16. exd5 Bxd5 17. Bxh7+ Kxh7 18. Qxd5 Bf6 19. Rhe1 Qa5 20. Kb1 Kg8  click for larger view21. Bxe5! Rfe8 22. Bxf6 Rxe1 23. Qxa8+ Kh7 24. Qf3 Rxd1+ 25. Qxd1 gxf6  click for larger viewThe queen endgame is winning.
26. Qh5+ Kg7 27. Qg4+ Kh7 28. Qh4+ Kg7 29. Qg3+ Kh7 30. h4 Qb4 31. Qd3+ Kg7 32. g3 a5 33. c3 Qb7 34. Kb2 Qc6 35. Ka3 Qb6 36. Qc4 Qc6 37. Qg4+ Kh7 38. Qf5+ Kg7 39. h5 Qd6  click for larger view40. h6+!
Finishing in style :).
40... Kh8 41. Qg4 Qf8 42. Qg7+ Qxg7 43. hxg7+ Kxg7 44. Ka4 1-0  click for larger viewI have another game going which is decidedly more crazy. I'll post it when it's over. |
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Nov-26-08 | | fizixgeek: In playing through Bagirov's games, I see that he plays Ne2 against d6, but not against d5. Anyone have a good explanation why? |
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Nov-26-08 | | whiskeyrebel: If black's pawn is on d6 it can support an early e5 thrust. A knight on f3 blocks white from playing an early f4 to challenge it. If black plays an early d5 it will be more difficult to play e5 with white's bishop on b2 staring down the long diagonal. That's my amateurish two cents worth. |
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Nov-26-08 | | fizixgeek: Nice, whiskeyrebel. Thanks. That makes sense. |
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Jan-25-09 | | WhiteRook48: on the A00 page, they say 1. b3 is an uncommon opening |
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Sep-13-09
 | | Open Defence: <Switching> this is the game and it was a computer assisted game.. but I think White could have played better in the opening [Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2009.07.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hiarcs Headbangers"]
[Black "CC GM Harvey Williamson"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[PlyCount "63"]
1. b3 e5 2. Bb2 Nc6 3. e3 d5 4.Bb5 Bd6 5. f4 Qh4+ 6. g3 Qe7 7. Nf3 f6
8. Nc3 Qf7 9. fxe5 fxe5 10. d4 exd4 11. exd4 Qe6+ 12. Ne5 Nf6 13. 0-0 0-0
14. Nxc6 Qe3+ 15. Kh1 a6 16. Qe2 Qxe2 17. Bxe2 bxc6 18. Kg2 Re8 19. Rae1 Be6
20. Bd3 c5 21. dxc5 Bxc5 22. Re2 Bd4 23. Rfe1 Bd7 24. Rxe8 Nxe8 25. Re7 Rd8
26.Bxa6 Nd6 27.Bd3 Nf5 28.Bxf5 Bxf5 29. Na4 Be4+ 30. Kf1 Bxb2 31. Nxb2 Ra8
32. Na4, 1/2-1/2 |
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Sep-13-09
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: <Open Defence: but I think White could have played better in the opening> I'd probably play 8.fxe5 with the idea of winning a pawn thanks to the Qh5+ fork trick, but that's not particularly solid for White - when I say "I'd probably play" I mean in a meaningless 3 0 blitz game, not against CC GM Harvey Williamson; while the third logical possibility of 8.0-0 Bg4 is nothing special for White. On move 9 opening the f-file for White's rook is rather attractive, especially as there's no clear alternative (9.0-0 exf4 10.exf4 Bg4/h3 is still nothing special for the first player). After that I might vary due to a desire to capture at d4 with a knight: that is, either 11.Nxd4 or 10.0-0, 11.d4 and 12.Nxd4. But in these lines White has to deal with multiple weaknesses (weakened king position on one hand and an isolated e-pawn on the other) so quite probably the Headbangers' plan is better. Another alternative is 10.e4!?, I'm not sure about the value of that but it looks risky. Indeed, I can't see any real improvement on the Headbangers' play. (What did you have in mind?) If the Headbangers wanted more than the draw, then the moment to deviate probably came with 16.Ba4!? - but that calls for a team of analysts, not someone mainly involved in this for 1.b3 experience. (And I presume the Headbangers were such a team of analysts, and rejected it.) White's main problem with regard to winning is the weakened kingside, which Black's active pieces can exploit if he sleeps even for a moment. And even if he'd manage to trade down to an endgame (thus taking some poison out of that problem) I doubt he could manage a win without a pawn majority. |
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