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Jan-29-09
 | | Phony Benoni: <blacksburg> That's the idea exactly! But, seriously, I wouldn't give up on the Scandinavian just because it has a bad reputation. If you keep getting pounded with it, that's one thing. But if you're comfortable with the positions you get and have good results, there's no need to change. I've certainly found it a frustrating opening to face. By the way, I have played the Scandinavian a bit myself. In e-mail correspondence play, I'm something like 8-1 with it. And here's an example of what I've been able to get away with over the board: D Thompson vs D Moody, 1994 <An Englishman> Personally, After 2...d4 I'd go ahead and play 3.Bc4. You never know, you know. I wouldn't mind terribly if Black played 3...e6, as the queen would feel a bit better about being misplaced when she doesn't have to worry about ...Bg4. |
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| Jan-29-09 | | MaxxLange: I love the smell of new crazy chess theory in the morning! 1. e4 d5 2. Qf3 dxe4 3. Qxe4 Nf6
now, what is the best square for the Queen? or, should we play a gambit by not re-taking on move 3? |
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| Jan-29-09 | | MaxxLange: 1. e4 d5 2. Qf3 dxe4 3. Qxe4 Nf6 and 4. Qa4 looks thematic. |
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Jan-29-09
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: <Phony Benoni>, I'm looking at 3.Bc4,e6; 4.d3,Nc6 and the Queen and Bishop are looking a little embarrassed by the threat of 5...Ne5. So 5.Bf4,e5; 6.Bg5! is good for White, but what of 5...Nge7 intending 6...Ng6? In this line it appears that 2 Black Knights make life rather annoying for the White Bishops and Queen. 5...Na5 might also be worth a look. This is rather fun; we're completely out of the books after only four or five moves. |
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Jan-29-09
| | Phony Benoni: <An Englishman> All very interesting, and a good illustration of the old saw that bishops should be developed after knights so they can avoid this type of persecution. Let's see: after <1.e4 d5 2.Qf3 d4 3.Bc4 e6 4.d3 Nc6 5.Bf4, Nge7> we have this positon:
click for larger viewHmmm. My first thought was 6.Qg3 winning the c-pawn, but I see now that 6...Nf5 takes care of that problem. Meanwhile, White has no good squares for his knights, and once Black plays ...Ng6 then ...Bb4+ becomes annoying. (That I know from a lot of experience with the 1.e4 d5 2.Nc3 d4 line.) It's fun to speculate in uncharted waters, gut I doubt I'll ever play 2.Qf3 again. Well, maybe if someone traps me into a 1-minute game or something. |
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| Feb-27-09 | | alter: any thoughts on the offbeat variation with 3...Qd8? it looks bad, but Adams used it at Frankfurt 1999 and got draws vs Svidler and Leko. if it can be played at super-GM level there must be something to be said for it. |
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| Feb-27-09 | | chessman95: <alter>
As usual in the Scandinavian, 3...Qd8 gives white a slight advantage after the queen moves. However, both computer and my own analysis have shown this variation to be equal to the normal 3...Qa5. I don't agree with the people who blame this variation to be too passive, because it's not like the queen does anything on a5. Also, it's nice not to have to worry about the annoying tactics with the bishop on d2 and then the knight moving to attack something else that's not covered. |
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| Feb-27-09 | | MaxxLange: Remember Fine's "Ideas Behind The Chess Openings"? The great themes of the KP part of the book were Black's long struggle to counter White's e4 strongpoint by either counter-fortifying e5, or by compelling its exchange. Fine also say thats, as a rule of thumb, if Black can play ...d5 without problems in the KP game, he usually equalizes at once. This ....Qd8 line sort of does those things, and then just puts the Queen back on her home square, judging it to be the best for now, I suppose. I can't remember what Fine said about the Scandinavian, but I imagine that he would have dismissed it with the usual sneer that classical writers had for "incorrect" moves. However, it does seem to be almost exactly the anti-1 e4 system that his own principles suggest. Of course, Black hasn't equalized yet, since White will have development initiative for a while, but probably not really more than in other openings. I'll talk myself into taking it up myself at this rate. |
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| Feb-27-09 | | chessman95: According to Yasser Seirawan in his "Winning Chess Openings" book the Scandinavian is a solid choice for black. He pointed out that although white does have an advantage, black's position will be hard to get any good attack against. |
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| Feb-28-09 | | alter: thanks. i've been looking at 3...Qd8 recently - i can't really see that there is much wrong with it. in fact, if you intend to follow up with a set-up with c6/Bf5/e6 then you have an easy to learn and low maintenance system vs 1.e4. what Fine had to say (in "Ideas...") about the Scandinavian was as follows "Black's basic idea here is unusual: he wishes to get freedom for his pieces at the cost of a theoretically inferior pawn structure and (on occasion) loss of time, in the hope that good development will make it possible to get adequate compensation, either in the form of a counter-attack or of the neutralisation of White's powerful center Pawn". He then goes on to say that only 2...Nf6 gives sufficient compensation but it leads to a cramped game so even that line cannot be recommended (obviously he was going to say that at some point!). returning to 3...Qd8, i suppose its just one of those playable lines which is unfashionable - but a little investigation into those sort of lines can pay dividends, especially if they occur as early in the game as this one does. |
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| Feb-28-09 | | chessman95: Why do computers always play this opening when their opening books are turned off? Is it just because they are trained to attack ungaurded peices? I find it hard to believe that they can't see they will lose a tempo if they recapture with their queen. My guess is that they for some reason don't think capuring is white's best response, so they don't even look at that line very much. Hmm...that's weird. I took the opening book out of one of my own chess engines and it found that after 1.e4 d5 (it played this every time) the best line was 2.exd5 Qxd5, but after 3.Nc3 it said that white had a fairly large advantage. Why do computers play this line? |
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Feb-28-09
 | | Open Defence: its my hunch but they probably over value the amount of space the Queen controls |
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| Feb-28-09 | | ganstaman: <chessman95> Sounds to me like you have a very weak computer if it couldn't forsee 3. Nc3 after 1...d5. Also, I haven't seen a computer play this without an opening book -- which engine are you using? Most that I've seen will prefer openings like 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 or the same thing but with 1. d4 d5 instead. |
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| Feb-28-09 | | MaxxLange: <alter> thanks for the Fine quote. That is still a great book, and well worth a read, although Fine's judgement of the Indian Openings (and, to a lesser extent the Sicilian), is hopelessly quaint, since he wrote it before the Soviet players unveiled the secrets of getting counterplay from what Fine condemns as their inferior, static, pawn structures. |
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| Feb-28-09 | | chessman95: <gangstaman> I was just using the bookup express engine I had gotten with a download. The reason I wondered about this though was because I had been playing an online engine the other day and it played this opening every time. Obviously it didn't have an opening book. I think I'll try turning off the opening book on one of my stronger engines and see what it does. |
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| Mar-01-09 | | chessman95: By the way, I did a longer engine analysis with that computer and it did not play the Scandinavian; it played either 1...e5 or the French (with its opening book off). |
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| Mar-08-09 | | FiveofSwords: The scandinvian is perfectly fine. I remember seeing a very fascinating game about a year ago where nissipeanu beat topolov with a scandinavian after some really neat and boggling tactics. Nissipeanu really has some intruiging ideas in many openings and I suggest people really look at some of his games if they want ideas in how to actually play aggrsively in positions that might looks very passive. Against the scandinavian, I find that I really prefer not to play 3 Nc3. I just play 3 d4. That leaves me the option of playing c4 which i like because on the normal scandy lines black can just make a annoying fortress and its hard to manage the break d5...but if c4 is played this is easy. It also invites black to play e5 which results in some interesting complication where black has a lot of aggresive tries that just happen to backfire :) Anyway the nice thing about the scandinavian is black practically forces a game where there will be some lively piece play, which is hard for black to guaruntee if he plays any other 1st move against e4 |
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| Mar-08-09 | | chessman95: What about a "reversed Danish Gambit"? After 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 then c6!?!?!?!? I'm think about trying this in my next game against 1.e4. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | chessman95: After 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 c6 3.dxc6 I will play 3...e5!?!?!?! and then if 4.cxb7 then 4...Bxb7 and I will have a good lead in development. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | FiveofSwords: right, well one problem with trying to play a reverse danish gambit is that white , if he plays the panov botvinnik vs the caro kan (which I do), he can transpose to it here by simply playing c4 and then letting you take d5. But instead of c6 you can play e6, or Nf6 and then e6, which is the icelandic gambit, and this is really a fun line, although black has to play quite accurately and energetically to stay in the game if white has an idea of what to do. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | geniokov: If i´m encountering this move....i´ve just convert it to Blackmar-Diemer Gambit to avoid theoretical discussions.My principle was "once my opponent answer 1.e4 with 1...d5,definitely,he knows the labyrinth of it"...so why should i enter to his likes?...I´m the White,i have to dictate what must be happen,not according to Black´s plan....moves like 1.e4-d5 2.d4-dxe4 3.Nc3-Nf6 4.f3 and so on... |
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| Mar-08-09 | | FiveofSwords: ok but i bet if a guy likes playing the scandy he also likes playing gambits and other such lively stuff. I bet if you really, really wanna annoy black you could just play 2 e5. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | geniokov: Well,i respect your decision Sir,but again,Black will transpose it to French Defense Advance variation which is dificult for White to encounter!...Again,Black dictates the game. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | chessman95: What about a reversed French or CK with 2.d3 or 2.f3? After 2.d3 you could fianchetto you kings-bishop, and then the rest looks pretty safe to me. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | Dredge Rivers: The official opening of the Swedish Chef and really pretentious filmakers! |
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