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Feb-16-04 | | Phoenix: To add to the critical variations of openings,I submit 4.Ng5 in the Two Knight's Defense. |
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Feb-16-04 | | Benjamin Lau: PP: Ooops, I just remembered that the Petrosian System is 4. a3, not 4. g3 (for some reason, I always thought of that as the Petrosian System), so disregard my comment about the drawishness... The 4 g3 line of course is the most drawish variation. I don't know if the tempo is worth it though. Surely, it stops ...Bb4 but I don't know if that's enough. But I agree that it may indeed be the most critical test, preventing a transposition to the Nimzo. |
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Feb-16-04 | | Benjamin Lau: PP, what do you mean by the Grunfeld "Classic/Russian?" The one with 4 Qb3 or something? |
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Feb-16-04 | | PinkPanther: <Benjamin Lau>
Yes, that's the one. 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. Qb3 dxc4 6. Qxc4 0-0 7. e4....and so forth, but yes Qb3 constitutes the Russian/Classical Variation, for example Bareev vs Van Wely, 2002 |
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Feb-16-04 | | Shadout Mapes: What's the English Attack in the Najdorf? |
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Feb-16-04 | | Gower: The english attack is where white basically throws everything at black on the kingside. It's similar to the Yugoslav attack against the dragon. |
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Feb-16-04 | | Benjamin Lau: PP, are you so sure that the Russian Qb3 is the best? Kasparov has a better record against D97 than D85. |
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Feb-16-04 | | PinkPanther: <Benjamin Lau>
The a3 move in the Petrosian System is intended to prevent the bishop going to b4 (pinning the knight, of course), combined with the bishop on b6 and the knight on f6. If white black can get all these moves in, he'll absolutely dominate the e4 (namely by dropping a piece in on it) square, and in the Nimzo-Indian and in the QID, one of the keys of the game is control over the e4 square, in that respect it's a lot like the d5 square in the Sicilian. However, I don't know THAT much about the Queen's Indian ( I know a while back I said I probably knew more opening theory than anyone on the site, but not for this opening) because I don't play the Nimzo/Bogo/Queen's Indian complex with black and I don't play 3. Nf3 against that complex, I play 3.Nc3 which invites the Nimzo Indian Defense. |
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Feb-16-04 | | Benjamin Lau: I didn't disagree about 4. a3 being perhaps the best response, I just thought that it wasn't a "critical test," the kind that makes the opposite player frown. |
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Feb-16-04 | | PinkPanther: <Benjamin Lau>
Well Kasparov may well fare better against the Classical Variation than he does against the Exchange Variation, but since when is the validity (strength) of a variation determined solely on how well one player (in this case Kasparov) does against it? Also, the QID is a drawish opening to start with (in general) that's why it has the reputation for being so "solid", but I think the Petrosian System basically says to black "ok, this game may end in a draw, but before it ends in that draw, I'm gonna have about 85% of the attacking chances"...but whether it's a "critical" test or not? I don't really know. |
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Feb-16-04 | | Benjamin Lau: PP, the validity isn't, I was pointing out an interesting figure. Relax. |
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Feb-16-04 | | zorro: It seems that you guys consider something a critical test only when it's sharp enough to make your opponent shudder to the bones. In this respect the Yougoslav attack and the Saemish are critical tests. But you also have to consider that those variations are just what black is hoping to meet, the KI and the Dragon being well suited for a razor-sharp fight. In my opinion something can be critical also because exploits the opponent's weaknesses without allowing any counterplay. In this respect the exchange variation of the KI (when White exchanges on e5) can be very annoying. Try play it against a good positional player and see how critical you position can become. A similar approach to the Gruenfeld would be the Bf4-lines. |
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Feb-16-04 | | Benjamin Lau: How about for openings in which black chooses the line (i.e. Ruy Lopez)? Which are the most "critical tests?" I think:
...e5 English with ...Bb4
Ruy Lopez Berlin (or at least it seems that way now)
For the Dutch, perhaps the 2. g3 classical although I prefer to play c4 then g3. |
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Feb-16-04 | | Shadout Mapes: Is there an actual line for the English Attack in the Najdorf, or does it just involve throwing pieces at your opponent? |
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Feb-16-04 | | Benjamin Lau: Is this the English attack? C Lutz vs F Berkes, 2003 |
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Feb-16-04 | | refutor: here's an example of the english attack Kasparov vs Van Wely, 2000 |
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Feb-16-04 | | PinkPanther: <Shadout Mapes>
That's more or less what it is. I think any plan by white in the Scheveningen or Najdorf, where white plays Be3 f3 g4 and goes for a huge kingside attack qualifies as the "English Attack". |
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Feb-16-04 | | PinkPanther: <Benjamin Lau>
It's hard to choose an acid test line for white to play when black is the one choosing the lines, that's why I left out the French Defense and the Ruy Lopez in my earlier assessment. In reality, the plan for white against all variations of the closed Ruy Lopez (with the exception of the Marshall/Anti-Marshall) is more or less exactly the same, they all feature the moves d4 (often followed by d5 later on) Nbd2 Nf1 Ng3 (or Ne3) Bc2...it's basically all the same. |
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Feb-16-04 | | PinkPanther: <Benjamin Lau>
Yes, that's the English Attack, although the example provided by Refutor was slightly more typical, but the Lutz-Berkes game was an English Attack nonetheless. |
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Feb-16-04 | | Benjamin Lau: PP: thanks, I don't play the English attack nor do I know much theory in the e4 lines so it was a hopeful guess on my part. What is the reputation of the English attack at the GM level? |
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Feb-16-04 | | PinkPanther: Well, I'm no GM but judging by the frequency with which it's played, I can tell you they think there's something to it. It's basically a race between the two pawnstorms, black's pawns on the queenside and white's pawns on the kingside.
If white's attack is quicker then you get a game like the one between Kasparov and Van Wely that Refutor posted, but if Black's attack is quicker you get a game like this, where Grischuk got absolutely toasted on the queenside
Grischuk vs Kasparov, 2001 |
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Feb-16-04 | | Benjamin Lau: PP, thanks. |
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Feb-17-04 | | Gower: Zorro: Yes the yugoslav is a very sharp line against the dragon, but I would consider it the critical test, even if it is what black expects. The dragon is currently in trouble theoretically. Look in any chess book and it will give the yugoslav as the critical line in the dragon. |
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Jun-27-04 | | Hanada: <Phoenix>
The most critical refutation of ...Ng5, or at least the most fun is Bc5!?...the Traxler Counter Attack...AKA the Wilkes-Barre Variation.I think the most critical answer to the Ruy Lopez is the Marshal Attack. For the Caro-Kann, I like the Fantasy Variation.....1)e4 c6 2)d2 d5 3)f3.... For the Quens gambit, i just say screw it and play the KID. Alows for alot of flexibilty and creativity. For the English...i just say screw it and and play the KID..... :) |
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Jun-28-04 | | Shadout Mapes: <PP> Interesting, I found that the first 11 moves of the Kasparov - Van Wely game were column 19 of the Scheviningen in MCO. But I get it, it's more of an idea than a variation, a Saemisch/Yugoslav Attack for the Najdorf. |
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