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| Nov-02-05 | | visceral infestation: Is Fischerandom the future of chess. I hope so. It sure is getting sterile with the overanalysis going on. It has taken me almost two years of studying openings just to be able to compete. I'm absolutely sick of it. |
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| Nov-02-05 | | azaris: <It has taken me almost two years of studying openings just to be able to compete> At what level? |
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| Nov-02-05 | | ryanpd: <There are no forced wins for White in any chess960 setup.> I would really like to know how anyone could prove such a bold statement. Theoretically, the starting position in chess is either a forced win or a forced draw. We don't even know whether chess is a forced win, and you are saying that you know that NONE of the positions in chess960 are forced wins? Impossible. |
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Nov-02-05
 | | Sneaky: But orthodox chess IS a forced win for White. At least that's what Hans Berliner and Weaver Warren Adams say... ;-) One thing I've noticed about FRC is this: in orthodox chess, every pawn is defended at the start, and the rooks are unprotected (but safe enough in the corners). The f7/f2 pawns are famous for being ill-defended: only defended by the king, who often wanders into his doom when he is forced to capture on f7, hence creating a million and one combinations that revolve around those squares. In FRC, often you will find a pawn which is not protected AT ALL. For example, look at position #431: 
click for larger viewThe pawns on a7 and a2 are not protected, and to make matters worse, if White opens with 1. g4 he immediately creates a very serious threat of winning a pawn and the exchange! |
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| Nov-02-05 | | ChessVip: FRC is for mad or sicked people like Robert Fischer....
:)
long live to traditional chess!! |
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| Nov-02-05 | | Gypsy: < Sneaky: ... For example, look at position #431: ... The pawns on a7 and a2 are not protected, and to make matters worse, if White opens with 1. g4 he immediately creates a very serious threat of winning a pawn and the exchange! > You mean 1.f4, right? |
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Nov-02-05
| | Sneaky: Er, umm, duh, yeah, I meant 1.f4! Sorry about that. |
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| Nov-02-05 | | Gypsy: <Sneaky> This position #431 of your is a good example of the merits or detractions of 960 chess. 1.f4
What do we as a Black do? Four moves, 1...b6 1...Nb6 1...f5 and 1...f6 come to mind. (For me, in that chronological order.) I get attracted to 1...Nb6 and/or 1...f5; also to 1...f6 on my second thought, but 1...b6 feels like a dud. Does the 1...Nb6 pass the tactical muster? What if something like 2.a4 a5 3.b4 and so on? Hey here is something interresting: 1.f4 Nb6 2.a4?! Nxa4!? 3.Bxa7 Ra8 4.B~ f5...; it looks like a quite decent start for Black. Now how about a symmetric counterattack: 1.f4 f5 2.Bxa7 Bxa2 3.Bxb8 Bxb1 and either 4.Kxb1 Kxb8 ... or 4.Ba7 Ba2 ...? The former looks fairly quiet, the latter, because of queen positions, less so. What if 5.g3 c6...? That looks fine. But 5.Bd4 makes me thing that 1...f6 may be more of my way to open... Hmm, now White can also play 2.Nb3 or 2.a3 right early on... And so it goes. I know these are naieve variations; as if one was thrown some two, three hundred years back and suddenly faced the decision whether it is better to answer 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 with 2...Nc6 or 2...Nf6 anew again -- without the few milion games of theory to lean upon. I know that these variations are clunky, with none of the 20+ move sophistication of QID or Sicilian Sveshnikov. Not everyone will like that and/or not every time. But I am having a fair ammount of fun thinking and playing like this right from the first moves. It feels as if being thrown right into the middlegame of some encounter already in progress. |
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| Nov-05-05 | | Akavall: The position <Sneaky> posted is a real anomoly, IMO. From all the FischerRandom games that I played, I don't remember any that started with tactics. Most of them start with slow positional development. |
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Nov-05-05
 | | nasmichael: In chess games apart from western chess, pawns are not protected from the beginning. In XiangQi (Chinese Chess, the pawns move and capture the same way -- straight forward, so they cannot protect each other, and the center pawn is not protected at all. In Shogi (Japanese Chess) the pawns also move and capture forward, so they too cannot rely upon one another, and as they start two rows ahead of the pieces in the backfile (IN XiangQi also), some sit unprotected. As these two "alternate chess realities" are played by as great or possibly greater numbers than the western variant, and gameplay is nevertheless quite smooth, it can be a lesser factor than many might think that pawns are unprotected, whether in FRC or in the standard game. Play and enjoy. |
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| Nov-06-05 | | Gene M: I have written a 200+ page book about chess960 (FRC). Title is: "Play Stronger Chess by Examining Chess960: Usable Strategies of Fischer Random Chess Discovered" I expect the book will be available thru Amazon.com in mid-late December 2005. For more info, including a picture of the front cover, see http://CastleLong.com/. Thanks.
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| Nov-06-05 | | Akavall: <Gene M> Maybe you should share some of the strategies with us :) |
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| Dec-10-05 | | Neurotic Patzer: In my opinion though, as if it mattered, I think the perfect version of chess would have: 1st. Different (selected) starting positions.
2nd. Have a bigger board, 10x10 probably being the best. This would: Make the game more strategically complex, give more room for original set ups and ideas, give the game a more creative (and human) touch, let us have more starting positions that don't give either side any abundant advantage, and would reduce any advantage that having the first move may give (in most positions). 3rd. More pieces. On a 10x10 board two more pieces should be introduced. I think a good choice would be adding a piece that moves as a rook and knight and one that move as a knight and bishop. This would: Make the game even more dynamic as well as increase the game's strategic value and remove any drawish tendency the game has. I think this would be the perfect chess game. The shuffled pieces, bigger board and the extra pieces would make the game a pure art form in contrast to today's mechanical play. Also, I think, essentially, chess as is today isn't as complicated strategically as people like to think, but it is more tactical in nature(which is what the "go" crowd is always criticizing chess for when comparing the two games); in this new form of chess, the game will not only be enriched with tactical and strategic originality but also it will be a more pure conflict between two intellects; which is what chess is all about, but has lost a lot of this essential quality in modern times. You may argue that this would make games longer and harder but that's the whole point! This would make chess a more intense, profound and extraordinary sport and would raise it to the highest level in the world of sports. The chess elite would be amongst, if not above, the greats of soccer, tennis, etc... I'm crying in awe just thinking about it! (Not really, I'm too manly) |
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| Dec-27-05 | | Tariqov: The most deeply analyzed position in FischerRandom is number 54!i always play that position with my friends:) |
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Jan-02-06
| | nasmichael: At SchemingMind.com there are a good deal of Chess960 games being played, and some are quite interesting to follow. Here is one from (I'll abbreviate their handles there)ToBj versus DoDa in an aggressive display of position 916 there--here is it RBBKRQNN, not sure of the number. The position allows a semi-familiar queenside castling, and a centralized rook from the start of the game. 1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. Qf1-c4 A lot of moves looks possible to play in Chess960! 2... a7-a6 Specially in the opening :-) 3. d2-d3 Bb8-a7 4. Ng1-f3 Ng8-f6 5. O-O d7-d6 6. Qc4-b3 Ra8-b8 7. Nh1-g3 Nh8-g6 8. a2-a3 Bc8-g4 9. Bc1-e3 Ba7xe3 10. f2xe3 Bg4-e6 11. c2-c4 Nf6-g4 12. d3-d4 Qf8-e7 13. Bb1-c2 O-O 14. Qb3-c3 Ng6-h4 15. h2-h3 Ng4-h6 16. b2-b4 Qe7-f6 17. Ng3-e2 Rb8-e8 (Diagram) 
click for larger view. 18. c4-c5 Be6xh3 19. Nf3xh4 Qf6xh4 20. g2xh3 Qh4xh3 21. d4-d5 Nh6-g4 22. Rf1-f2 Ng4xe3 23. Rf2-h2 Qh3-f3 24. Ra1-e1 f7-f5 25. e4xf5 a6-a5 26. Bc2-e4 Qf3xe4 27. Ne2-g3 Ne3xd5 28. Ng3xe4 Nd5xc3 29. Ne4xc3 a5xb4 30. a3xb4 d6xc5 31. b4xc5 Rf8xf5 32. Rh2-f2 Rf5xf2 33. Kg1xf2 Re8-e6 34. Nc3-b5 Kg8-f7 35. Nb5xc7 Re6-c6 36. Nc7-d5 Rc6xc5 37. Re1xe5 b7-b5 38. Kf2-e3 h7-h6 39. Ke3-e4 Rc5-c4+ 40. Ke4-d3 Rc4-g4 41. Re5-e7+ Kf7-g6 42. Re7-b7 h6-h5 43. Rb7xb5 h5-h4 44. Kd3-e3 Kg6-h6 45. Nd5-f4 g7-g5 46. Rb5-b6+ Kh6-g7 (Diagram) 
click for larger view. 47. Nf4-e6+
Kg7-g6 (Draw offered and accepted)
Compare this ending to some of the games [K+R+N vs K+R+2P] in the endgame database for the standard games, like this one: Fischer vs Gheorghiu, 1968 , after 59...Rxb5+ 
click for larger view.
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| Jan-03-06 | | blingice: #343
click for larger viewSince I've never played FischerRandom, would this position be an interesting game? |
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| Jan-03-06 | | Chess Classics: Does anyone know of a place to play Correspondance Chess960? Regards,
CC |
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Jan-03-06
| | nasmichael: <ChessClassics> play at www.schemingmind.com or www.gameknot.com or www.brainking.com --and there are also others listed at the Fischer Random Chess Email Club (FRCEC) . |
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| Jan-03-06 | | HannibalSchlecter: Does anyone know what year Fischer Random was invented? |
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Jan-03-06
 | | Joshka: Believe Fischer introduced Fischer Random in Argentina, 1996. |
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| Jan-03-06 | | HannibalSchlecter: Thanks Joshka, the reason I ask is because I have a Chess Life & Review magazine from 1978 that has an interview with Smyslov and Benko. He tells Benko that HIS idea of putting the pieces on the back row and shuffling them is interesting. Sounds to me like Benko had the idea first then. |
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Jan-03-06
| | Joshka: Oh yes, I'm sure others (as you pointed out) have suggested this idea as well. This happens many times, often the person getting credit for starting the innovation, is not always the first. Heck Capablanca wanted to use a 10 by 10 board with a couple new pieces. I believe I started collecting Chess Life's around 1978, what month was the article in? |
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| Jan-03-06 | | HannibalSchlecter: Joshka, I'm having trouble finding it now. It has a green,white, and black cover. And it's possible I'm thinking of Max Euwe-Benko interview. I hope you or I can find it. |
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| Jan-04-06 | | chesswonders: What is the position number in Fischer Random where the pieces arrange in the regular classical chess position? |
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| Jan-04-06 | | Amoceann: <HannibalSchlecter> I think I read it was invented in 1996 by you know who. :) |
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