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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 48 OF 242 ·
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| Jan-15-08 | | slomarko: yes but engines sometimes don't see it coz of the horizont problem. |
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| Jan-15-08 | | frogbert: engines playing and engines being used by humans for analysis are two different things, slomarko. by facilitating the engine by giving help in populating its hash tables "properly", i can make most engines clearly better (meaning they will get deeper faster) than without my "help". playing through variations and backtracking usually gives the engine a much better idea about the best move in a position, and with better heuristic values for the search nodes, the effect of pruning becomes much stronger. alas, it can search deeper in less time, since lots of useless moves and branches can be completely ignored. of course, this doesn't remove the horizon problem, it just pushes the horizon somewhat - but in my opinion, in the concrete case of morozevich, the positions he play aren't usually ones where horizon problems are very relevant. what i mean by this, is that when engines say moro is clearly worse, then that's usually exactly what he is! do you mind finding one or two games from 2007 where engines claimed moro was clearly losing (type -2) but which he subsequently won, and it turned out afterwards that he was winning all along, or at least was equal? in other words, where moro's "hidden resources" were beyond the engines' horizons? unless i get such an example, i'll seriously doubt that happens very often... :o) |
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| Jan-15-08 | | Rolfo: frog and slomarko, may be a silly question, but are there more similarities than differencies in playing style between Magnus and Moro? |
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| Jan-15-08 | | frogbert: what is "playing style", rolfo? :o)
in order to answer your question, one at least need a common and clear definition of "playing style". and are differences and similarities really countable, so that their number can be compared? :o) |
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| Jan-15-08 | | Rolfo: I agree that the "criteria" was too unprecise. They are both creative and innovative players I believe. Is Moro a bit more Russian schooled? Moro said about Magnus that "he was a free spirit". Does anything of this make sense? |
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| Jan-15-08 | | slomarko: <Roflo> your question is very interesting however it is not easy to answer. Karpov was once asked what is his style and he answered: "i do not have a style." there is a lot of sense in that. in my opinion all top players are very universal: the players who are usualy considered "positional players" can play sharp attacking games (example of this is Leko: his famous game against Kramnik when he beat him with black in the world championship is a good demostration or once he destroyed Grischuk in Corus with 2 pieces sac) and on the other hand the attackers can play good positional chess too (example Shirov he once said that he likes to play the endings). so all in all there are differences of course but they are smaller than most amateurs think. having said all that i can answer about Moro and Carlsen. now surprisingly enough i think Carlsen is mainly a position player he reminds me of a lot of younger Karpov and Leko. he is of course very good at tactics too but so are most younger players (Radjabov, Karjakin, etc..) a further prove of it is he seems to be more comfortable playing 1.d4 than 1.e4.
Moro in my opinion is unique among all top players that he likes to create very complicate positions even at the cost of entering worse or losing position. in effect the amount of risk he likes to take is huge
which in a way is very fun to watch coz you always know something is gonna happen. the similarity between the two of them is neither is great in openings (like for example Gelfand or Leko) and like to play a lot of different openings. |
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| Jan-15-08 | | slomarko: for example the openings against e4:
Carlsen playes open ruy, close ruy, sveshnikov, e6 sicilians, dragon, and sometimes the alekhine.
Moro playes the french, e6 sicilian, najdord, caro-kann, the closed ruy and the pirc. compare that for example with Kramnik who plays almost only the Petroff or Kasparov and Topalov who play mainly the Najdord. |
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| Jan-15-08 | | acirce: I don't think they are much similar at all. Morozevich is much more exotic and unpredictable than Carlsen. Of course they are both "creative and innovative", but you have to be on that level. |
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| Jan-16-08 | | Rolfo: One has to ask questions to learn.. Thank you.. |
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| Jan-16-08 | | tackhead: Live is live, but the German Bundesliga is only rated at the very end of the season which then goes right into FIDE´s july-list. |
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| Jan-16-08 | | frogbert: tackhead, if you would review earlier pages here, you will see that we're completely aware of when the bundesliga games are rated. after some discussion, i've chosen to rate games as soon as their results are public. when it gets close to the release of the april list, i will make a distinction between games that will soon be rated and all played games. in effect, this means that from about march 1st, i'll publish an april list prediction (without bundesliga games, for instance) and a normal live list. the two lists will be collapsed again after the april list is released. note also that there are examples of the opposite too, when tournaments are played and finished early enough to be included in a list (april, for instance), but the organizer for some reason fails to report the results to fide in time. i've therefore decided to rate everything relevant immediately, and only make "official list predictions" when fide publishes the list of tournaments that will be rated. this usually happens about one month before the new list is released. in general, i'm happy for suggestions for the live list, but note that this is an unofficial iniative done on hobby basis, and my view is that whatever strategy i (with the input from others) decide on, is ok. nothing is right and nothing is wrong. :o) |
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| Jan-16-08 | | tackhead: Thank you for the illustration. Surely I do appreciate your efforts. Keep up the good work! |
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| Jan-17-08 | | frogbert: live top list updated after corus a+b, round 5:
01 Kramnik 2798,5 -0,5 (1) 5 1975
02 Anand 2784,4 -14,6 (2) 7 1969
03 Morozevich 2774,1 +9,1 (1) 11 1977
04 Topalov 2771,0 -9 (1) 5 1975
05 Mamedyarov 2759,2 -0,8 (1) 5 1985
06 Shirov 2755,0 0 (0) 0 1972
07 Leko 2751,0 -2 (1) 5 1979
08 Aronian 2748,8 +9,8 (2) 6 1982
09 Svidler 2747,0 -16 (2) 16 1976
10 Radjabov 2745,7 +10,7 (1) 5 1987
11 Carlsen 2743,1 +10,1 (1) 5 1990
12 Ivanchuk 2738,3 -12,7 (3) 14 1969
13 Karjakin 2732,0 0 (0) 0 1990
14 Adams 2728,7 +2,7 (1) 5 1971
15 Kamsky 2726,0 0 (0) 0 1974
16 Gelfand 2722,2 -14,8 (1) 5 1968
17 Ponomariov 2719,0 0 (0) 0 1983
18 Grischuk 2716,3 +5,3 (1) 11 1983
19 Polgar 2714,2 +7,2 (1) 5 1976
20 Jakovenko 2711,2 -8,8 (1) 11 1983
21 Alekseev 2711,0 0 (0) 0 1985
22 Bacrot 2709,5 +9,5 (2) 10 1983
23 Cheparinov 2703,9 -9,1 (1) 5 1986
24 Akopian 2700,0 0 (0) 0 1971
25 Wang 2697,3 -0,7 (1) 7 1987
corus elo winners so far:
1. aronian +11,5 points
2. radjabov +10,7 points
3. carlsen +10,1 points
4. polgar +7,2 points
5. bacrot +6,4 points
corus elo losers so far:
1. gelfand -14,8 points
2. eljanov -10,0 points
3. anand -9,7 points
4. cheparinov -9,1 points
5. topalov -9,0 points
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| Jan-18-08 | | frogbert: live top list updated after corus a+b, round 6.
carlsen currently nr. 7 at 17 years, 1,5 months!
kramnik breaks 2800, again!
topalov regains 3rd place in the list!
01 Kramnik 2802,7 +3,7 (1) 6 1975
02 Anand 2783,7 -15,3 (2) 8 1969
03 Topalov 2775,6 -4,4 (1) 6 1975
04 Morozevich 2774,1 +9,1 (1) 11 1977
05 Mamedyarov 2758,3 -1,7 (1) 6 1985
06 Shirov 2755,0 0 (0) 0 1972
07 Carlsen 2747,7 +14,7 (1) 6 1990
08 Svidler 2747,0 -16 (2) 16 1976
09 Leko 2746,4 -6,6 (1) 6 1979
10 Radjabov 2745,6 +10,6 (1) 6 1987
11 Aronian 2744,6 +5,6 (2) 7 1982
12 Ivanchuk 2739,0 -12 (3) 15 1969
13 Karjakin 2732,0 0 (0) 0 1990
14 Adams 2728,8 +2,8 (1) 6 1971
15 Kamsky 2726,0 0 (0) 0 1974
16 Gelfand 2721,4 -15,6 (1) 6 1968
17 Ponomariov 2719,0 0 (0) 0 1983
18 Grischuk 2716,3 +5,3 (1) 11 1983
19 Jakovenko 2711,2 -8,8 (1) 11 1983
20 Alekseev 2711,0 0 (0) 0 1985
21 Polgar 2709,6 +2,6 (1) 6 1976
22 Bacrot 2708,1 +8,1 (2) 11 1983
23 Cheparinov 2702,5 -10,5 (1) 6 1986
24 Akopian 2700,0 0 (0) 0 1971
25 Wang 2697,3 -0,7 (1) 7 1987
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| Jan-18-08 | | slomarko: only bad news today. btw how did you manage to calculate everything so quickly? the kramnik game has only just ended?? |
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| Jan-18-08 | | zarg: The force is strong in him |
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| Jan-18-08 | | frogbert: carlsen winning is good news! very good news, actually :o) but the next three rounds will be very tough. |
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| Jan-18-08 | | Rolfo: Frogbert, our young man is up to something big .. |
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| Jan-19-08 | | frogbert: live top list updated after corus a+b, round 7:
01 Kramnik 2802,0 +3 (1) 7 1975
02 Anand 2787,4 -11,6 (2) 9 1969
03 Topalov 2774,9 -5,1 (1) 7 1975
04 Morozevich 2774,1 +9,1 (1) 11 1977
05 Mamedyarov 2757,8 -2,2 (1) 7 1985
06 Shirov 2755,0 0 (0) 0 1972
07 Aronian 2749,5 +10,5 (2) 8 1982
08 Carlsen 2748,4 +15,4 (1) 7 1990
09 Svidler 2747,0 -16 (2) 16 1976
10 Leko 2746,2 -6,8 (1) 7 1979
11 Radjabov 2740,6 +5,6 (1) 7 1987
12 Ivanchuk 2739,7 -11,3 (3) 16 1969
13 Karjakin 2732,0 0 (0) 0 1990
14 Adams 2729,3 +3,3 (1) 7 1971
15 Kamsky 2726,0 0 (0) 0 1974
16 Gelfand 2721,6 -15,4 (1) 7 1968
17 Ponomariov 2719,0 0 (0) 0 1983
18 Grischuk 2716,3 +5,3 (1) 11 1983
19 Jakovenko 2711,2 -8,8 (1) 11 1983
20 Alekseev 2711,0 0 (0) 0 1985
21 Bacrot 2706,5 +6,5 (2) 12 1983
22 Polgar 2705,9 -1,1 (1) 7 1976
23 Cheparinov 2702,0 -11 (1) 7 1986
24 Akopian 2700,0 0 (0) 0 1971
25 Wang 2697,3 -0,7 (1) 7 1987
rating winners after round 7:
1. carlsen +15,4
2. aronian +12,2
3. radjabov +5,6
rating losers after round 7:
1. gelfand -15,4
2. cheparinov -11,0
3. eljanov -9,3
(only players recently in live top list are considered for the above) |
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| Jan-19-08 | | TheGladiatres: I think Magnus will be ranked in the top 5 after Linares. I see Kramnik has broken 2800 again, when was the last time he was on the right side of 2800 elo? |
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| Jan-19-08 | | hardliner: Magnus is going up, when will he stop? I predict he will be close to 2800 in the end of this year. It's optimistic, but I don't believe anyone would be very surprised. |
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| Jan-20-08 | | frogbert: live top list updated after corus a+b round 8:
01 Kramnik 2800,7 +1,7 (1) 8 1975
02 Anand 2792,1 -6,9 (2) 10 1969
03 Morozevich 2774,1 +9,1 (1) 11 1977
04 Topalov 2770,2 -9,8 (1) 8 1975
05 Mamedyarov 2757,5 -2,5 (1) 8 1985
06 Shirov 2755,0 0 (0) 0 1972
07 Aronian 2749,8 +10,8 (2) 9 1982
08 Carlsen 2748,5 +15,5 (1) 8 1990
09 Svidler 2747,0 -16 (2) 16 1976
10 Leko 2745,2 -7,8 (1) 8 1979
11 Radjabov 2740,8 +5,8 (1) 8 1987
12 Ivanchuk 2739,5 -11,5 (3) 17 1969
13 Karjakin 2732,0 0 (0) 0 1990
14 Adams 2728,8 +2,8 (1) 8 1971
15 Kamsky 2726,0 0 (0) 0 1974
16 Gelfand 2721,5 -15,5 (1) 8 1968
17 Ponomariov 2719,0 0 (0) 0 1983
18 Grischuk 2716,3 +5,3 (1) 11 1983
19 Jakovenko 2711,2 -8,8 (1) 11 1983
20 Alekseev 2711,0 0 (0) 0 1985
21 Polgar 2707,2 +0,2 (1) 8 1976
22 Bacrot 2705,3 +5,3 (2) 13 1983
23 Akopian 2700,0 0 (0) 0 1971
24 Wang 2697,3 -0,7 (1) 7 1987
25 Cheparinov 2696,1 -16,9 (1) 8 1986
cheparinov drops out of 2700 and topalov and morozevich swap places. otherwise, no big changes. note: the short-cheparinov game was started, and so will be rated as a normal game, even if it was forfeited due to a rule infringement. if the appeal goes through or fide for some other reason decides not to rate the game, i'll make the proper adjustment, of course. :o) |
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| Jan-20-08 | | chessmoron: <note: the short-cheparinov game was started, and so will be rated as a normal game, even if it was forfeited due to a rule infringement. if the appeal goes through or fide for some other reason decides not to rate the game, i'll make the proper adjustment, of course. :o)> Forfeits are not rated. |
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| Jan-20-08 | | slomarko: amazingly <chessmoron> is right. but the breaking news is the appeal comittee decided that the game has to be replied tomorrow. |
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| Jan-20-08 | | hitman84: <I agree that the "criteria" was too unprecise. They are both creative and innovative players I believe. Is Moro a bit more Russian schooled? Moro said about Magnus that "he was a free spirit". Does anything of this make sense?> <Rolfo>Yes the Russian School of thought is different. Most Russian coaches have the practice of giving middlegame problems to their students(a bit advanced). There is no perfect move as such in those positions, but lots of variations, and ideas. They give a time limit for the student to come up with the analysis. Looking at the analysis they suggest openings. It's almost like they read your personality, and it reflects in your game. I find Carlson's style universal. He also seems to be intuitive very much like Anand. Maybe that's the reason he got advice from Anand a couple of times last year. It's also good to see he has a wide repertoire which is a must these days I feel. Speaking of playing styles.. its very difficult to categorize them. Kasparov once said that each World Champion has a style of his own. I'm actually interested in this subject, and I'm doing some research on this. Some day I'll submit my paper so that you all can have a look. :) |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 48 OF 242 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
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