For each analyzed position, it might be good to show a list of all viable black responses (i.e. those that don't lose immediately).

Analysts can use this list as a basis for 'work to be done', and we shouldn't rest until all moves have been either ruled out, or analyzed deeply (perhaps spawning new forums). As analysis is worked out, the status for each move can be posted in the forum header.

There's already some squabbling over, eg, rook ending vs queen ending. I'd prefer to see both being worked on, and defer the choice between them until we have more data.

It's the only right way to think.

<You, I guess, are fully occupied with the Devils? Or would you like a complete change of focus with this?>

Yep, let's do it. We can both look at Artar's Leviathan to get an idea of the key positions - the two in my sample above for starters, and maybe 3 or 4 more. Then we can decide how to best display them, etc.

I'll clear space in my forum header for the GMAN message and links. Don't erase anything yet - let's decide on some ending FENs first.

Actually, it'd be a pity to let the Devil's Advocate forum just fade away - would you like to take it over from YouRang?

It has two main components. (1) Looking at the game from Black's point of view - which might get more important now as we look for possible defences for him. Plus (2) storing his earlier messages to us and links to articles etc?

<Eyal> Hold steady - yet again. You're right to be curious about the concept - it mainly worked much earlier in the game, as a place where black plans and strategies could be discussed 'with the board turned round' - but as YouRang says, this side of it hasn't contributed much lately. Best to let it go, I think, rather than waste your energy on it.

As I said in a previous post, I'm thinking ahead to some other branching points in the game. I'd rather have you available to take up the next analysis forum that comes along than waste you on an idea that's past its sell-by date. Sorry about the stop-start planning.

<YouRang + Eyal>:
So it's back to Plan A: I'll post the Nickel/GMAN stuff on my own forum. YouRang hosts the new FEN Shui Parlor (?!) - and Eyal waits patiently in standby mode. OK?

Let's get a list of major endings together before we move on. The earliest branching point after 34.Bxg7 Rxf3 35.Rxf3 Kxg7 36.Qd8 Qe8 is the one in my example -- (A) 37.Qxe8 Rxe8 <rookfile> (B) 37.Qb6 Re3 38.Rf2 Re2 39.Rxe2 Qxe2

Clearly, 'A' is more forcing than 'B' in the sense that it follows directly from the forced exchanges. We should certainly include the Queen ending after 39...Qxe2 [my diagram above]; maybe also the Q+R position after 37.Qb6, though this depends on how many other key lines there are.

When I first suggested an endgame forum this was the sort of idea I had in mind. My idea was flawed in practice for two reasons:

1)We were still to far away from an endgame to make useul endgame analysis. The thought of spending a considerable amount of time on an endgame that may never arise didn't appeal to people, and that was understandable. Now that we are practically in an endgame this should not be a problem - endgame analysis will have a real effect on the main forum due to its important consequences.

Overlap with the new FEN endings forum (snappy name, anyone?) is unavoidable.

The new FEN forum can work now, I think for a few reasons - one is the example of Artar's Leviathan, another is the imminence of the endings at last. They won't be so dependent on people posting there - more a reference tool.

There's no need for them to carry every single twist and idea put forward - just main lines, with very visible FENs, and our best winning effort to date in each variation...

It's true it overlaps with one of the lines in the new FEN forum, but hopefully they can workon different levels.

Now suppose 36.Qd8 is played, and we need fora for 37.a, 37.b and 37.c. The three hosts for the three fora would need to go back to the 36.Qd8 forum to find relevant previous analyses. Would they do this? I think no. At least not 100%. In any case the a, b, and c fora WILL exist (hopefully).

So let's say we have an endgame forum, with one dedicated host. Now the a, b, and c foramen would need to go back to the old 36.Qd8 forum AND the endgame forum to find relevant previous analyses. In both, they would need to scroll back on previous pages.

Did we have an opening forum? No. A middlegame forum? No. Do we need an endgame forum? I think no. What's special about the endgame? Well, we need to find the best move, but that's not new.

I suggested an endgame forum some weeks ago. I don't think we need one. The forum system works fine as it is, with <Domdaniel> or <twinlark> as coordinator.

This new thing need not last forever. It's mainly a way to compare, contrast and visualise some of the possible endings coming up. The debate can continue in the move/line forums, but this is more like a visual aid, or a companion to Leviathan. The idea is to show our best lines, plus a few alternatives.

Hmm. I've never had seven fora open at once. But I take a lot of shortcuts between 'em, and there's a link to all of them right here.

PS. Have you heard the Hungarian band "Depths of Depravity"? The've relased a new album, Insensible Extinct Mechanical World. Their song 'Terrorizer - Fear of Napalm' can be listened to here:

< Artar1 > really kicked some, ah, serious ... stuff on the < "Leviathan" >. Perhaps he would consider the EGP. The "levi" could be posted to one or two posts on his forum and just noted what page(s) That should be our most accurate guide for discussing the ENDGAME PLAN. Those are my thoughts as of now.

<jepflast> suggests endings that have been clarified - that's one approach. The other is the still-debatable endings like those after 36.Qd8.

Maybe if you start with the same two positions after 36.Qd8 I had in my example -- we can just name them alphabetically, with nicknames where appropriate.

[the FENs below have been disabled by adding a space after the first group of characters - otherwise they're okay]

A: 36.Qd8 Qe8 37.Qxe8 Rxe8 [the 'rookfile' rook ending, in Eyal's forum] FEN: 4r3 /6kp/p2p2p1/P2p4/3P4/5R1P/1P4PK/8

B. 36.Qd8 Qe8 37.Qb6 Re3 38.Rf2 Re2 39.Rxe2 Qxe2 [the Queen ending, favored by kwgurge and others; on madhair's forum] FEN:
8 /6kp/pQ1p2p1/P2p4/3P4/7P/1P2q1PK/8

The Q+R position after 36.Qd8 Qe8 37.Qb6, but with no immediate exchange, can be left to the forums.

I suggest you put those two on your forum header, along with the relevant info, and the main lines [from Artar or the forums...]; and say that more positions will follow...

I should have a few more positions for you in a while. Try setting those two up, in place of the Nickel material. Use your own judgment as to how much analysis to put with each...

I'll post later ideas on your forum as well as here.

'FEN Shui Parlor' was an attempt at a joke. Can't think of anything much better, though...

if you want to check up above you should see that your GMAN data is safe, and credited to you... keep your own copy on a file somewhere, just in case

<Efficiency>: Try to minimize the duplication of effort (although it's a good idea to have some checking of other people's work).

<Thoroughness>: Make sure that no important lines go unanalyzed.

<Responsiveness>: If a line is found that is flawed (i.e. allows GMAN to draw-or win), that we quickly get our top analysts to confirm it, and publicize it as a "must-avoid" move.