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Dec-06-22
 | | saffuna: One thing I'm noticing in games the past few days... A team that's threatening for a sustained period had better score, because if it doesn't it's likely the other team is going to score when it gets a chance. |
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Dec-06-22
 | | moronovich: <saffuna: How many games are these percentages based on? If only a couple hundred a few points difference is not significant.> There are several stas which prove, that the team shooting first, has the advantage. Something like 55-45 or perhaps more. |
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Dec-06-22 | | technical draw: < How many games are these percentages based on?> Over a thousand.
Anyway, Morocco deserved the win. Spain played a terrible game. Move over Europe and South America. Hello, Asia and Africa. |
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Dec-06-22
 | | moronovich: An even game between Morocco and Spain who was as bad to the penalties as the japanese. |
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Dec-06-22
 | | saffuna: Speaking of penalty kicks, the players who take casual/cool kicks look brilliant when they score. But boy do they look terrible when they miss, as one did for Croatia yesterday. |
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Dec-06-22
 | | moronovich: Yeah, that is the destiny of the kicker.
One of my last goals was a "Palenka" (1968) before it became official. Quite a spectacular experience. A sudden stroke and 100% improvisation.The team was leading 3-0 at the time. |
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Dec-06-22
 | | saffuna: I've seen a Palenka where the goalkeeper doesn't move. Embarrassing. |
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Dec-06-22 | | technical draw: Cristiano who? Great goal by Ramos. |
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Dec-06-22
 | | Fusilli: <saffuna: Speaking of penalty kicks, the players who take casual/cool kicks look brilliant when they score. But boy do they look terrible when they miss> Yeah, like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-A...
The one game where Argentina won *despite* Maradona. |
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Dec-06-22
 | | Fusilli: In a random sample of about 1,000, the margin of error for a binary variable (like scoring a penalty kick) is about ±3%. This means that, technically, 51.5 v 48.5 is on the edge of margin of error if the sample size is 1,000. I trust that the advantage of shooting first is real. The sample can be considered random as far as I am concerned. Differences in skill among players should tend to cancel themselves out in large samples. And as <TD> said, the teams already came out even after 120 minutes of play, which suggests approximately even skill. About the captain's choice, I bet any reasonable captain would choose to shoot first just based on the logic that <TD> laid out, regardless of what data may or may not show. Since the odds are that you will score, let the other team deal with the pressure. The question I have is: Doesn't the captain that wins the draw also choose the goal? And don't they choose the goal that has their own fans behind? If so, shooting order is not the only variable that seems to matter, and disentangling the effect of order from fan support is rather impossible. <optimal play: ... It would be interesting to know the stats on which team won the penalty shootout if the team shooting first missed their first goal.> Indeed! I may take a look at the study by the LSE professor later. If it is behind a pay wall, Vanderbilt is very likely subscribed to the journal that published the study, giving me access. |
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Dec-06-22
 | | saffuna: Another thing to look at: the 30 minutes of extra time after tie games. I think play tends to be poor in that time, and few goals are scored. Teams seem to be waiting for penalties. |
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Dec-06-22 | | areknames: Ok, so Portugal didn't require their primadonna to win. However, as they were only facing the insipid Swiss who were punching above their weight by being at the WC in the first place, they will need Ronaldo at full capacity in the next game(s). If he has been rude to the coach or whatever, he'd better apologize for the greater good of the team. |
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Dec-06-22
 | | Fusilli: <areknames> I don't know if the Swiss goalkeeper was having a terrible day or if the many amazing saves we have seen from other goalkeepers make him look bad. But I get the feeling that some of those goals found him ill-placed or too slow. Mind you, I only watched the video highlights. It was a Swiss cheese defense anyway. If Portugal 6 Switzerland 1 was a chess game, that's the pun I'd submit, Swiss Cheese. |
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Dec-06-22 | | technical draw: <Fusilli:I bet any reasonable captain would choose to shoot first> True which negates the whole point of randomness in the coin flip. A true random flip should assign a first kick/goal side not assign a captain to choose. This may lead to Simpson's paradox. |
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Dec-07-22 | | optimal play: <Fusilli: ... The question I have is: Doesn't the captain that wins the draw also choose the goal? And don't they choose the goal that has their own fans behind? If so, shooting order is not the only variable that seems to matter, and disentangling the effect of order from fan support is rather impossible.> Yeah, that's an interesting point. It could make some difference if the fans directly behind the goal are your supporters or not. Well, Morocco shot first and won the shootout. I couldn't quite tell if it was their fans behind the goal or Spain's, but the Moroccan fans excitement must have counted for something. They play Portugal in the QF so the fairytale should come to an end then. |
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Dec-07-22 | | areknames: <Fusilli> Didn't really notice the Swiss gk's shortcomings, I'm sure he mustn't have been all that great. Pepe's header was spectacular though! Portugal sliced through the cheese in the same way Brazil did the day before, but of course Korea are better than Switzerland. |
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Dec-07-22 | | areknames: So how about those QFs then?
ARG-NED is a modern classic but last time I checked the Dutch have no Messi. That fact alone should do it for Argentina, who are the obvious favourites. FRA-ENG: The French have all the pressure on them and if Mbappe' is ON they will be hard to stop but this is the best English side in 30 years with loads of talent in attack. On the right day they can beat anyone, including the champs. It will be hard fought. BRA-CRO: Croatia have significant scope for improvement and possibly some key players are past their prime. They need to tap into their unused resources to challenge Brazil but I feel there's only one possible outcome here. MAR-POR: No reason to think that the North Africans couldn't pull another upset but Portugal really look too strong here. What do y'all think? |
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Dec-07-22 | | technical draw: <areknames> <What do y'all think?> I agree with your assessments. |
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Dec-07-22 | | optimal play: <areknames: ... What do y'all think?> Argentina to beat the Netherlands
France to beat England
Brazil to beat Croatia
Portugal to beat Morocco |
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Dec-07-22
 | | Troller: Brazil and Portugal are very clear favourites IMO. Morocco have been well organized and all but it was a tough last match for many key players, and Portugal seemingly have no problems opening up solid defences. Brazil are just amazing and Croatia really look like one of the weaker teams left. I also agree with Argentina and France being favourites, at least if Argentina and especially Messi can keep the momentum. Looking forward to Friday! |
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Dec-07-22
 | | Fusilli: I also expect Brazil to beat Croatia and Portugal to beat Morocco, but I feel both Argentina - Netherlands and France - England are tossups. The former, perhaps because I have gotten used to expect more from Argentina than I have seen so far. I would like to suffer less and depend less on luck (as in Australia missing a great opportunity in the last minute). The latter for the reasons y'all have said. The French are impressive but this English team is dope. How about very specific predictions? For the game result (regardless of whether 90 or 120 minutes): Brazil 3 Croatia 2
Argentina 1 Netherlands 1
Portugal 3 Morocco 1
England 1 France 0
(And I hope Argentina wins on penalties)
System to see who predicted best, with tie breaks: 1) Number of correct results, as in wins and draws. Goals don't matter and how incorrect the result was doesn't matter (e.g. I predict Brazil wins, and whether it draws or loses makes no difference.) 2) Add the severity of the miss: e.g., if Brazil draws, I get -1 and if it loses, -2. 3) Cumulative goal difference between prediction and reality. For example, I am predicting Brazil +1. If it is +2 or 0 (they draw), then I am 1 point under. 4) Cumulative difference between goals predicted and converted for all 8 teams. 5) Do we still need another tie break? OK, the final tie break is that the forum host wins. E.g., <TD> and <areknames> are tied after all four criteria, then <Fusilli> wins. Please don't propose modifications! It's already complicated. Especially, don't touch point number 5, the fairest of them all! |
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Dec-07-22
 | | Fusilli: On a different note, I just watched the original Panenka penalty kick on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROG.... That goal won Czechoslovakia the 1976 European championship. It was really genius. The goalie must have guessed that, since Czechoslovakia needed to score to win the game and the tournament, the shooter was going to go for the unreachable corner. It was also a perfect feint, with no slowdown like the two we have seen in this world cup. By the way, wasn't the second German goal a foul? (See the YouTube video link.) It looks to me like charging the goalie in the goal area. |
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Dec-07-22
 | | Fusilli: And, in the personal chess news department, I will be playing my second post-pandemic OTB tournament next weekend. It's a 5-round Swiss, FIDE rated, here in Nashville: The Music City Open. Organized by the Nashville Chess Center, whose executive board I was invited to join on Monday (I accepted: https://www.facebook.com/NashvilleC... ... Pretty excited about it!) Will I miss any games, you ask? Well, yes. I will be missing England v France, but only that one. I am playing only one game on Saturday, but I am taking my bye on the later round, for stamina reasons. Too bad, it promises to be one of the best games of the tournament. |
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Dec-07-22 | | technical draw: <Fusilli and areknames>. You go to a lot of trouble for what is essentially an even proposition. I just flip a coin. |
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Dec-08-22 | | optimal play: <How about very specific predictions?> Argentina 2 to beat the Netherlands 1
France 3 to beat England 1
Brazil 4 to beat Croatia 1
Portugal 4 to beat Morocco 0 |
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