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| Nov-19-06 | | twinlark: <kwgurge> One would think so, but I've been running some 20-24 ply slides on the 28.Qc3 line for a few days and in none of them does Black play Bh6. The action is basically on the Queen side, on the seventh rank and on the e-file. Check <themadhair>s forum for analysis. |
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| Nov-19-06 | | weisyschwarz: <twinlark>, <Ohio>, what is the goal of Qc3? |
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Nov-19-06
 | | OhioChessFan: Qc3 puts immediate pressure on the c file. It prepares Qb3, which threatens to win the d5 pawn. Black's only defense is to put his Queen on the a8 diagonal, which is pretty much out of play. Some lines run into something like Qc3/b3, Rc3, Rc1, and start pushing the b pawn. Or, getting a major piece to c7 with pressure on f7. White's unencumbered 3rd rank allows him to move his major pieces from side to side, much faster than Black. Black has a lot of responses, and a few counterattacks, so it's hard to suggest what would be the main line. Those are the ideas. How they all fit together? Much too deep for me. Twinlark has some engine analysis on the <themadhair> forum. |
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| Nov-19-06 | | weisyschwarz: Thanks, <Ohio>. The fact that <Twinlark> doesn't see the computer opting for ...Bh6 may be good news. And I like the idea of doing something on both K and Q sides, confusing GMAN. In passing let me say that the public library in Columbus is one of the nicest I've seen. |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: <Open Defence> says: 27..Bg7 .. why h4 ? is it to try and secure g5 ? doesnt 27..Bg7 28.h4 Rac8 transpose into the 27..Rac8 line but with us playing h4 instead of h3 ? <kwgurge> says: Other than Bg7, all black's other REASONABLE 27th moves weaken something in his position (a-pawn, queenside, 7th rank or back rank). On 27...Bg7, white should play the h3 waiting move (it is actually more than just a waiting move as it creates a luft for the king and takes g4 away from black's queen) while awaiting the weakness black chooses to create for himself. |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: <RandomVisitor> gives Rybka at 26 ply: 5. (0.35): 27...Bg7 28.h4 Re4 29.Qg5 f6 30.Qg3 Rae8 31.fxg6 hxg6 32.Qxg6 Rxh4 33.Rg3 Qf7 34.Qxf6 <RonB52734> gives Hiarcs line: . ± (0.91): 27...Bg7 28.h4 h6 29.Qc2 Re4 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.Rf7 Qc8 32.Qf2 Qe6 33.Rb7 Kh7 34.b3 Re8 35.Ra7 Qc8 |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: <Gufeld Student> suggests this line: 27...Bg7 28.Qg5 <28.Qd3; 28.fxg6 fxg6 29.Qg5 Qe6> 28...Qb5 29.h4 Re2> |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: The latest Rybka line from <RandomVisitor>, which scores the same: 27...Bg7 28.h4 Re4 29.Qg5 Rae8 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.Qxd5+ Kh8 32.Rf7 Qg4 33.Qxd6 Qxh4 34.R7f4 |
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Nov-20-06
 | | WannaBe: <OhioChessFan> FYI, since you asked me to handle a discussion line in place of <twinlark> I think you should know my schedule for this week... Mon-Tue-Wed, normal schedule, work, etc...
Thurs-Fri-Sat-Sun, American Open Tournament, will leave my house usually around the time the moves are made (11 AM my time, 2 PM Eastern). And I won't be home from tournament until late (9/10 PM my time) So I probably won't get a chance to update my profile until then. |
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| Nov-20-06 | | twinlark: ***MARKER DIAGRAM FOR THE WORLD GAME AFTER 27...Rac8 28.h3***
click for larger view<RandomVisitor>'s 24 ply substrate analysis with Rybka is: 1. (0.30): 28.h3 Bg7 29.Kh2 Qb5 30.R1f2 Re4 31.fxg6 fxg6 32.Qg5 Rf8 33.Rxf8+ Bxf8 34.Qd8 Qe8 and that's it so far.
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Nov-20-06
 | | kwgurge: Qd3 lets black's bishop take control of the key c1-h6 diagonal. It is way too risky to give up this diagonal and grab the a-pawn putting our queen in an out of the way corner allowing black to initiate kingside actions. Our f1 Rook does not achieve full mobility unless we remove its bank rank guard duties. Black's threats(?) on the c-file do not equal white's on the f-file.
We need to proceed with the plan of h3, opening the f-file and increasing pressure on the kingside, especially on f7 and f8 while not letting the black B gain increased scope on h6. Black will eventually be forced to keep his heavy pieces back to defend these threats. Do not be enticed/distracted to move prematurely toward the queenside. The critcal upcoming action must be on the kingside until heavy piece trades or white's gaining possession of the 7th rank allow us to shift to queenside action. h3 to fully mobilize our pieces, take g4 from his Q's use, create a luft for the king and otherwise maintain black's limited counterplay, is the best move here. |
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Nov-20-06
| | kwgurge: <Domdaniel: Surviving to grab it some other day, perhaps. We do have to be very careful here.>
This observation is right on the money. Grabbing the a-pawn at the cost of, exiling our Q, freeing his B while he has rooks on both open files and our K and f1 rook are effectively pinned to the back rank is exactly what AN wants us to do. Remember his stated credo of waiting while we provoke our own weaknesses. He is trying to distract us from our kingside operations which is where he is currently most vulnerable. |
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Nov-20-06
| | kwgurge: <Artar1> h3 is not just a waiting move. It creates a luft for the king, deprives black of the g4 square and most importantly is actually aggressive in so far as it dramatically increases the scope and strength of our f1 rook. |
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| Nov-20-06 | | twinlark: Here's more from <RandomVisitor>'s forum: (28-ply)
6. (0.37): 27...Rac8 28.h3 Bg7 29.Kh2 Qb5 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.Qg5 Re6 32.R1f2 Rce8 33.Rf7 Rf8 34.Rxf8+ 
click for larger view(27-ply)
3. (0.31): 27...Rac8 28.h3 Bg7 29.Kh2 Qb5 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.Qg5 Re2 32.Rf7 Rf8 33.Rxf8+ Bxf8 34.b4 
click for larger view |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: ** Current Line Under Discussion **
click for larger view |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: A question. In <Twinlark> and my posts above, I can't see the last line of the chessboard. Am I the only person having that problem? |
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Nov-20-06
| | WannaBe: I see the chess board fine, 8 rows, 8 columns. Test, test,
click for larger view |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: I see yours. It's bizarre. If I change any one piece in mine, I can see it. I have the same problem in my profile. |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: Thanks to <RandomVisitor> Here's Rybka's latest line: 28.h3 Bg7 29.Kh2 Qb5 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.Qg5 Re6 32.R1f2 Rce8 33.Rf7 Rf8 34.Rxf8+ |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: Rybka rates the above at .38 for 28 ply. I have felt for a while we were winning, and am beginning to be more convinced of it. |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: <Dionyseus> says: +0.37 is great for a Rybka score, that's good enough for me. 28.h3 it is unless someone can convince me there's something even stronger.
<kwgurge> says: h3 to fully mobilize our pieces, take g4 from his Q's use, create a luft for the king and otherwise maintain black's limited counterplay, is the best move here. <Artar1> says: 28.h3 is a waiting move and will have to be played at some time. But I hate to make waiting moves. I always like to fight for the initiative on every more. But this may be our best option. <kwgurge> responds to <Artar1> : h3 is not just a waiting move. It creates a luft for the king, deprives black of the g4 square and most importantly is actually aggressive in so far as it dramatically increases the scope and strength of our f1 rook. <Nibiru> says: I don't believe now in h3 or h4 when things are concentrating on the queen side (I think that is now the case after Rac8). Maybe Rfc1 is the right move here although I understand that people will see that as a tempo-loss. (forgive me if my English is a bit rusty). I don't think 28. Rfc1 Rxc1+ 29. Qxc1 Re2 is dangerous for us <kwgurge> says: h3 is what allows us to strike quickly. Without h3 our f1 rook cannot be fully utilized because of it's back rank guard duties. If we move the Q off the c1-h6 diagonal and black occupies it with his bishop, it is black that has the initiative and the greater threats. <kwgurge> again: Of the two best "waiting" moves, h3 is superior to b3. The latter is purely defensive and unnecessary because a rook on c4 will soon have to retreat when our threats along the f-file take shape. h3, on the other hand, creates an escape square for the king, deprives black's Q of g4, and, by eliminating back rank threats, increases white's ability to use the f1 rook aggressively. <izimbra> says: h3 is not a waiting move! It is the first step of an active plan that eliminates counterattacks to our eventual attack. <domdaniel> says: I wasn't very surprised by 27...Rac8, because I think he could play to sac the a6-pawn and get serious compensation. So 28.Qd3 is dangerous, and 28.h4 feels wrong. I prefer the 28.h3 idea, but let's take our time and map the landscape first. |
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Nov-20-06
| | OhioChessFan: <karpova> says: 28.h3: Creates an escape route for our king and thereby frees the Raf1 so it's not just a good and useful waiting move but also a preparation for our attack against his king. And that's why i think that 28.b3 has no future - 28.h3 is better in every aspect. We don't weaken but improve our position and increase the pressure by strengthening our attacking potential...... All comes down to 28.Qd3 and 28.h3 and 28.h3 has more advantages on his side as long as further analysis doesn't reveal a forced winning line for white after 28.Qd3 - but i doubt that GMAN would have overlooked something like this. <thorsson> says: Let's just examine the move in hand. 28.h3 is a safe move here, just as after other moves, because it allows us to threaten things on the f-file. But maybe there is something better. <Nasrudding Hodja> says: So it does look like 28. h3, which I had earlier opposed (wrongly, it seems), may well be the most flexible move as it covers g4, doesn't give black any further invasion possibilities, and keeps open the future option of g4. <karpova> says: Anyway, white could still play Qd3 after 28.h3 while 28.Qd3 has the additional drawback of allowing 28...Bh6. Taking on a6 leads to a draw so i don't see a good reason to vote for 28.Qd3 <izimbra> says: h3 has received the most analysis and looks good for white with strong winning chances ahead. Qd3 followed by Rc2 and then Qxa6 followed by fxg5 has been shown to draw. Qd3 without the intent of taking a6 is positionally wrong and pointless. No other move has any strong advocacy at the moment, so h3 is clearly the best choice. |
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| Nov-20-06 | | Boomie: After RVs <28.h3 Bg7 29.Kh2 Qb5 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.Qg5 Re6 32.R1f2 Rce8 33.Rf7 Rf8 34.Rxf8+> Bxf8 35.b4 Be7 36.Qg4 Re4 37.Qf3 Qe8 38.Qd3.
click for larger view |
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| Nov-20-06 | | Boomie: 35...Be7 was a lemon in that last line. Let's try Re8 instead. 28.h3 Bg7 29.Kh2 Qb5 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.Qg5 Re6 32.R1f2 Rce8 33.Rf7 Rf8 34.Rxf8+> Bxf8 35.b4 Re8 36.Qf6 Qd7 37.Qf3 Qe6 38.b5  |
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| Nov-20-06 | | Boomie: Next up is 35...Qe6.
28.h3 Bg7 29.Kh2 Qb5 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.Qg5 Re6 32.R1f2 Rce8 33.Rf7 Rf8 34.Rxf8+> Bxf8 35.b4 Qe6 36.Qf4 Qe8 37.Qf3 Re4 38.b5 axb5 39.Qb3 Qa8 40.Qxb5 |
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