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Olga Viewer
Member since Sep-02-17
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   Olga Viewer has kibitzed 47 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jun-15-21 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
Olga Viewer: Congrats to the CG team for getting over to the new aerver! I had hoped that meant the site had also been moved from perl but I understand how much work that will be. If you do manage to get it migrated, it will be much easier to find developers to work on it. Still hopeful for ...
 
   Jan-07-21 stevemcd87 chessforum (replies)
 
Olga Viewer: <MissScarlett: Things back working as normal. I noticed that in this game A Humphrey vs Fischer, 1955, the original move <31.R4g3> wasn't showing, so corrected it to <Rgg3>. Will the new Olga handle both?> The new engine, Kokopu, handles both <31.R4g3> ...
 
   Dec-19-20 Olga Viewer chessforum (replies)
 
Olga Viewer: <Z> Absolutely! If I wasn't crazy busy yesterday I would have checked Olga to verify it worked or not. I just wanted to confirm I've made sure this got added (as I missed it) to the new build :)
 
   Dec-06-20 Playing Zone chessforum (replies)
 
Olga Viewer: < Stonhenge: I don't think so :) > It should be! ;)
 
   Nov-04-20 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
Olga Viewer: Hate the look of Olga 2's temporary header? Great news! Tonight I will be working on implementing the true header design and tabled game score! :) 2 of the most requested features. Getting ready for Release Candidate 1! Please check out the stream or VOD and provide feedback on ...
 
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 12 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-25-17  The Kings Domain: I like the movement of the pieces but the control board below is crude and dated in design. Make it more modern and attractive and all will be swell. :-)
Sep-25-17  zanzibar: I again with <TKD>'s statement about the design.

I did an informal survey of control buttons:

<Lichess, chess.com, Fritz 12, CB Light 2009, Chessbase db online, Chessbase site (their new viewer), NIC online, CT, 365, and RHP>

and nobody uses "+". All have symmetric forward/backward controls, and many (well, all, really) use a variant of ▶ for autoplay.

I actually took notes, and suggest CG do a similar study.

Sep-25-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: Regarding indicating the move just played where it is visible just below the board, your answer was a bit cryptic. It's disconcerting not having the move and move number visible right below the board, as pgn4web has it.

A couple other things specific to mobile use:

The play buttons are very small for big clumsy thumbs and I find myself regularly clicking move 3 or 4 just below the play button and then (because I don't know what move number I was on due to the previously mentioned problem) I have to go searching for where I was in the game. Hassle!

Also, and I don't know if this can be corrected, especially early in the game I'm clicking through a known opening quickly and invariably the screen size blows up, a reaction to a "double tap" I suppose. It happens all the time. Hassle!

It's nice to have a more interactive board so I'm glad you are working on it.

Sep-25-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: To flip the board on mobile with Olga:

*scroll, scroll*
Tap settings, whoops! so tiny and close to engine link, accidentally tapped engine, opened up a new window, had to close that window, back to original game window, Tap settings
Tap flip board

With pgn4web:

Tap e7

Sep-25-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <Check It Out> Well there's no way we're clicking on e7 to flip the board, since there might be a piece on e7 that you want to move — but I'll investigate the possibility of a hot-key like "f" to accomplish the same thing.

<I like the movement of the pieces but the control board below is crude and dated in design.> By control board, do you mean the left/right/etc. arrows or the "settings box"? In either case I agree they look a bit crude, but that can be tweaked with CSS styling.

<It's disconcerting not having the move and move number visible right below the board, as pgn4web has it.> Sorry, I didn't mean to be vague: originally I wanted that info out of the way, because things like "Black is in check" is not something that a good chess player needs to be informed about. But the more I use the software the more I think it's a good idea to have the move number and previous-move visible without scrolling, and the "status" info of the game can come along for the ride. Exactly where to squeeze it in without creating unnecessary white space will have to be explored.

<Oddly sized buttons> Somebody asked why the buttons are not all exactly the same size (and others will surely ask again) — it was an intentional design decision to make the most commonly used buttons (notably "forward move") bigger than the others. On desktops I personally use → and ← to scan through the games but on mobile devices you have no keyboard, so I wanted the ">" button to be the biggest one available, taking up 40% of the button space. In experimentation this makes misclicks much less likely.

<Auto-zoom> As to the topic of clicking buttons so fast you trigger you mobile OS "zoom in" feature, we're well aware of this issue. I'm not quite sure, but I fear there is nothing that can be done about that. It seems to manifest on iOS more than Android. I've already learned to avoid the problem by timing my clicks just a little slower than the OS recognizes.

<nobody uses "+"> Except for pgn4web and Olga. <Lichess, chess.com, Fritz 12, CB Light 2009, Chessbase db online, Chessbase site (their new viewer), NIC online, CT, 365, and RHP> ... <I actually took notes, and suggest CG do a similar study. ... many (well, all, really) use a variant of ▶ for autoplay.>

We did in fact do a survey but our results seem to contradict yours. Mind sharing your notes? We saw that most of them do not <use a variant of ▶ for autoplay> but rather don't offer the autoplay feature whatsoever. Where is the autoplay feature on Chess365, Lichess, NIC online, Chessbase Online, or Chessbase's new viewer? Do they hide them with hot-keys? I certainly don't see a button for that purpose on any of those viewers but I don't use those products so perhaps I missed something. RedHotPawn simply has a button that reads "Play" but as an international product we tried to avoid English labeled buttons.

Anyhow, we'd happily change it from a "+" to a reasonable alternative suggestion, but I really want to avoid a symbol that's a dead-ringer for the forward move button. I know from all the confused emails I received regarding CVD over the years that people don't universally recognize a right-pointing triangle as an auto-play feature.

Sep-25-17  g15713: I agree with other readers:

It's disconcerting not having the move and move number visible right below the board, as pgn4web has it.

Sep-25-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: This part got glossed over: bigger play through buttons for clumsy thumbs, and move the pgn away from them a bit to avoid accidentally pressing move 3 or 4.

I really am happy that you are updating your viewer!

Sep-25-17  Muttley101: <chessgames.com: <Muttley101> Thanks for pointing that out. It should work again, shortly.>

Thanks, it is. It was working again so quickly I wondered whether I had got it wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Thanks for acknowledging also.

On another tack, I see another member has said "I don't like the wiggly move" (for want of a better phrase), and "please remove it".

My view on these things is to ask "why not both?"

I dislike it a lot. But I can see that others may like it, so why not a toggle button/check box to switch it on or off?

Lastly, I agree with others- move number someone on the board's perimeter.

Sep-25-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: I'm sorry, I don't know what people are referring to with comments like "wiggly move" or "the pieces are drunk." Do the pieces not smoothly move from square to square as intended?

If not please let me know your platform (device, OS, browser).

Sep-25-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: I've figured out how to scroll on my macbook air, though it involves pressing down on the mouse-plate (or whatever it's call) and highlighting everything.
Sep-25-17  zanzibar: <" "wiggly move"..."the pieces are drunk."> Normally it's drunk players who make wiggly moves.

PS- Here's the PGN viewer control comparison notes I made... well sort of:

https://zanchess.wordpress.com/2017...

I turned it into a Visual Puzzle to have a little fun while doing the work of making it presentable.

(Actually, the solution will be the most presentable version, but that will take a day or two more before I get around to it.)

Sep-25-17  zanzibar: PS- It's a funny blindspot on my part, not remembering that pgn4web used "+" for auto-play.

But I couldn't get to it easily yesterday, since somebody had changed my default viewer. Ha!

I rarely play games over using autoplay, obviously.

Sep-26-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Edwin Meijer: If in the future it looks and feels anything like pgn4web, i might start using it. But for now, pgn4web remains my favourite chessgames.com chess viewer. I think it's just perfect. So i'm switching back.
Sep-26-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessical: A simple suggestion: add a button to inject your Stockfish analysis straight into a post eliminating the need for any intermediary copying and pasting.
Sep-26-17  The Kings Domain: Zanzibar: Thanks, I'm glad someone else agrees. :-)

Chessgames.com: By control bar I meant the controls to move the pieces on the board - the +, <, >, and = signs. Thanks for noting our suggestions and I do hope you improve the design of said control board. :-)

Sep-26-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: I was using Olga on a friend's mobile phone and I think I understand what you mean by "wiggly pieces." When the piece reaches its destination there seems to be a very small 1-2 pixel readjustment at the last moment. This might be an artifact of how its animated/round-off errors. On faster platforms it happens so quick it's invisible, that's why I was not perceiving it. Is that what you are referring to, or is there something even stranger?

<A simple suggestion: add a button to inject your Stockfish analysis straight into a post eliminating the need for any intermediary copying and pasting.>

We sort of have that, in the sense that if you request stockfish analysis you can just link to the analysis page (and the game too, if it's out of context). For instance Bogoljubov vs Alekhine, 1922 : analysis of move 30.?.

Sep-26-17  zanzibar: <<chessical> A simple suggestion: add a button to inject your Stockfish analysis straight into a post eliminating the need for any intermediary copying and pasting.>

This is a great idea, and one I utilize on SCID all the time. Allowing MPV multi-branches is especially useful at times (SCID allows it to be dynamically adjusted, but I tend to just stick to MPV=3 most of the time).

Sep-27-17  Boerboel Guy: If I want to copy a portion of the game to my clipboard (say moves 1 to 15), how would I do that? It seems that you can't copy and paste parts of the pgn.
Sep-27-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <It seems that you can't copy and paste parts of the pgn.> Well you can, but it strips the spaces out to look like 1.e4e52.f4exf43.Bc4Nf64.Nc3 etc. Oddly the Analysis window works perfectly, it's only the main game score that does that. We're working on the issue.

In the meantime you can always use the <PGN: view> link below the diagram to grab the moves you want.

Sep-27-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <Invert the board> We now have a special short-cut function key 'f' to automatically flip the board, so you don't have to go into the Settings panel.

<Improved move status> The status line now shows the previous move played in addition to its other info. We're experimenting with getting it closer to the main diagram.

Sep-28-17  tonsillolith: Hi CG! Thanks for putting in the effort to build a new viewer, and taking user feedback in the development process.

On a mobile phone I can't hit 'f', so that won't work for flipping the board. Is that the function key you mean?

Some changes I would want before i considered switching from pgn4web: Easy method to flip board (valid for mobile)
Ability to turn off the annoying continuous piece movement. Ability to change autoplay speed.

Features that would be nice:
Ability to jump ahead or back several moves at a time. Slightly larger navigation buttons

Sep-28-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: I heartily agree with <User: tonsillolith>'s request to be able to alter the continuous playback speed, particularly to slow it down. And of course enlarge the playback buttons as I've mentioned.

You've inserted the status and move number between the playback buttons and the pgn which reduces the problem of tapping back to the beginning of the game, which helps - thank you! However, I think you could eliminate the status words and simply have it show the move number.

Sep-28-17  Muttley101: <chessgames.com: I'm sorry, I don't know what people are referring to with comments like "wiggly move" or "the pieces are drunk." Do the pieces not smoothly move from square to square as intended?

If not please let me know your platform (device, OS, browser).>

When I saw this I immediately thought "rounding error" for calculating the pixel location of the path of the piece, as it now clear this feature isn't a deliberate choice of coding. You mention the possibility of rounding error later. I'm viewing this in Firefox. I'd be surprised if it is browser-dependent, but I've not tried another browser so can't say from my end.

Re: the board staying at the reset size from the default. It did for a short while, but today on opening chessgames.com its back to the same default size. I resized it down, switched to another game in the notes (two Carlsen games, the second linked in the notes, not that it should matter), and it reset to the default size on changing games.

So I agree- there's a bug in the code for calculating the path of the piece, and there seems to be a second bug in the code for tracking when a user resets the size of the board. The bar with the settings also moves with the resetting of the board size (implying screen location of the settings bar is linked to the board location), which isn't how I would do it- I would have the settings panel to the side of the board, and fixed on screen once it is opened. Having to move to a new location each time the board size changes to click the "change board size" icon (since it appears you can only do this incrementally, rather than from a drop down choice or dialog box for entering the size), to offering a list of possible sizes to choose to (example: drop down list of font sizes) might also be something you want to fix.

All the best :) Mutt

Sep-28-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: The pieces are still drunk over here :)

Clicking on the arrows or on the moves themselves doesn't make a difference. I have Windows 10 with Firefox 55.0.3 (64bits).

Sep-28-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: There isn't much we can do about the "drunk pieces issue" because (I believe) it's in the chessboard.js library. They may fix it one day.

Some experimentation indicated that it happens when the ratio has been affected (zoomed in or out) and yes, probably is a 1-pixel round off issue. I don't understand why some people always experience it; I have to really try to coax it into that behavior by changing scale. By the descriptions I wonder if some people experience it worse than others. I find the 1-pixel wiggle almost cute, but if it was 2-4 pixels it would look ridiculous.

One idea to ameliorate the issue is to allow a mode where piece animations are turned off entirely. If they "blinked" from one square to another they would not wiggle.

We know that on some mobiles/tablets if you click a button too fast you can activate "zoom" -- but that's true for nearly every website on earth. My advice: just slow down.

Yes, 'f' only works if you have a keyboard. The tablet/mobile approach is the settings. The only other alternative would be to add a new main control button.

Speaking of the control buttons, we'd like to make them bigger (taller) and perhaps find better icons. Note that they change size with your browser text size.

We can work on a way to adjust autoplay speed but before we do that, what do you think of the default? Clearly too fast? Maybe if we halve its speed we can please at least most of the people for now.

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