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| Jan-20-12 | | Jim Bartle: From what I've seen Messi is right up there with Pelé and Maradona. Maybe he can't carry a team like Maradona did without great players around him (Argentina 1986), and it's true his great play has been with Barcelona, and for some reason not with Argentina's national team (with Maradona as coach last year). But if you think Pele has a big ego, take a look at Maradona some time. Totally beyond reason, but supported by all the fanatics in Argentina. |
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| Jan-20-12 | | King Death: <Jim Bartle> Other than when Rizzuto died has anybody really mentioned his name in connection with the Hall since he made it there? There are more than likely a whole bunch of others whose names never come up now that they're in. A few were Yankees who rode the coat tails of guys like Ruth and Gehrig. |
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| Jan-20-12 | | Jim Bartle: Yeah, you know, DiMaggio, Berra, Ford, Mantle. Lucky stiffs. Actually I'm surprised Don Mattingly hasn't received more attention. He was a great player for maybe five years, then got injured and his career went downhill. (Same thing with Will Clark on the Giants.) |
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| Jan-20-12 | | King Death: <Jim Bartle> In mentioning those players you're being ridiculous. They obviously belong. Let's try a few other names...Combs, Pennock, Hoyt, Lazzeri. If they play
anywhere else what chance they do they really have? |
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| Jan-20-12 | | Jim Bartle: I was just kidding around. You're right about a lot of those names, in face there are lots of names from the twenties and thirties who got in via the Veterans Committee who are pretty dubious. |
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| Jan-20-12 | | benjinathan: You guys may have seen this, but in case not, this is near the topic tha you are discussing: http://joeposnanski.si.com/2012/01/... |
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| Jan-20-12 | | King Death: <Jim Bartle> Okay and those Yankees I named were just a start. Big numbers from an era full of them. |
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| Jan-21-12 | | Jim Bartle: From Posnanski's article: "Next year�s ballot will include: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling, Craig Biggio, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza and Kenny Lofton. "The 2014 ballot will include: Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas, Mike Mussina and Jeff Kent. "The 2015 ballot will include: Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz and Gary Sheffield." Leaving out the steroid guys, I think Maddux, Johnsonn and Martinez are automatics. I'd also say Glavine and Smoltz should go in. and I think Biggio and Schilling as well, though they will probably not be elected the first year. I don't see Kent, Lofton or Mussina as Hall of Famers. There are dozens of players of their quality who aren't in, the Davey Concepcion/Dwight Evans types. Is Sheffield one of the steroid suspects? Not sure--he certainly got bigger, and trained with Bonds. In any case, he did hit 500 home runs, hit .290 lifetime and walked an awful lot. That would seem good enough, but he's not identified with any single team, bounced around so much, and that hurts him. |
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| Jan-21-12 | | King Death: <Jim Bartle> Next year I think Jack Morris and possibly Jeff Bagwell from the holdovers go in even though I'm not sold on Morris. Leaving aside the players with the steroid taint who show up for the first time, next year Biggio looks like an automatic to me. In 2014 I like Maddux Glavine and Thomas (I've never seen anything about steroids involving Thomas) and in 2015 I agree that Johnson and Martinez go in on the first ballot. |
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Jan-21-12
 | | WannaBe: My prediction:
2013: Biggio
2014: Maddux, Glavine, and Big Hurt.
2015: Johnson, Smoltz
2016: WannaBe |
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| Jan-21-12 | | King Death: <WannaBe> Those ears of yours look a little puffed up. Some of those writers might start poking around for dirt and decide not to vote for you. |
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| Jan-21-12 | | Jim Bartle: The voters ought not to vote for Maddux and Glavine in 2014. Then they could go in together with Smoltz the next year. I'll bet three members of the same rotation have never gone in together. Besides, if Maddux and Glavine are inducted along with Thomas they'll just spend the weekend complaining that "chicks dig the long ball." |
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Jan-21-12
 | | Phony Benoni: Surprised Piazza isn't getting a little more love for 2013. With a .309 average and 400+ home runs as a catcher, he should definitely be considered. Or does he have The Taint? If not, I'd make him a better candidate than Biggio except for the 3000 hits. Maddux is a shoo-in for 2014, and Glavine will probably make it with 300 wins. Three in one year is tough, so Thomas will probably wind up waiting. In 2015, three more viable candidates. I'd discount Sheffield on bad mojo alone, after seeing his act in Detroit. Johnson and Martinez first ballot, Smoltz will probably wind up waiting since his dual citizenship lowered his lifetime numbers in all categories. <WannaBe> Being eligible in 2016 means you must have retired in 2011. Now, I hate to break this to you, but in baseball you have to have a career before you can retire. |
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| Jan-21-12 | | Jim Bartle: I thought Piazza was on the suspicious list. Otherwise he's a sure thing. Johnson, Martinez, Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine--five starting pitchers probably to go in in three years. |
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Jan-21-12
 | | WannaBe: Hey, with all my postings here, I'm a lock in the writer's wing! 2016, here I come! |
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| Jan-21-12 | | King Death: <Phony Benoni> and <Jim> There's never been quite the storm that surrounded some of the others but I remember suspicions expressed in re Piazza. Maybe they were just along the lines of "he's putting up those numbers so he must be juicing". If not for that Piazza's just as much a lock as Bagwell should be. Sheffield is a strange one. He has some nice career numbers but his relationship with the folks doing the voting is gonna cost him some. With some of the candidates in the next few years he may have to wait awhile. The juicers will hurt him too because a portion of the media will be voting for them making it less likely that he gets a piece of the action. |
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Jan-21-12
 | | WannaBe: News: Rams will play a game in London for 2012-2014 season. Opponents to be Announced. Reaction: Dear Comm. Goodell, The British are our friends, our ally, why do you treat them so?? |
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Jan-21-12
 | | Phony Benoni: 2012-2014? That's going to be a long season for the Rams. But then, these days every season is a long one for the Rams. (Gotta use up my leftover Lions material.) |
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| Jan-21-12 | | Jim Bartle: Sheffield was a prickly character, particularly at the beginning of his career, I guess. Still I repeat that his chances are hurt more because he bounced so much from team to team. |
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| Jan-21-12 | | Jim Bartle: Speaking of the Rams, where do people think Kurt Warner stands in NFL history and among all-time quarterbacks? He had some really great seasons, but had some poor ones as well. He's certainly not one of those quarterbacks who was great year after year. |
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Jan-21-12
 | | Phony Benoni: Warner was capable of catching lightning in a bottle and dragging otherwise mediocre teams into contention. Put him on a team capable of giving him proper protection, and he might hold a good number of the records. He'll probably make the Hall of Fame with his record (and his inspirational story), but doesn't belong in the top echelons. |
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| Jan-21-12 | | King Death: The first thought that came into my head when I saw the question about Warner was a comparison to Lefty Gomez. They both had some great seasons but were uneven in their form.
<Phony Benoni>'s right, Warner will probably get in the Hall Of Fame, just like Gomez did in baseball. http://www.baseball-reference.com/p... |
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| Jan-22-12 | | benjinathan: On December 13, 2007, Sheffield was named in the Mitchell Report as one of the players who had obtained and used steroids |
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| Jan-22-12 | | benjinathan: And Tim Raines should make it but I fear won't. |
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| Jan-22-12 | | King Death: < benjinathan: On December 13, 2007, Sheffield was named in the Mitchell Report as one of the players who had obtained and used steroids> Well that his prickly relationship with the press and some pretty strong candidates in the next few years may end any chances that he'll get there soon. The Veterans Committee may be his only shot. <And Tim Raines should make it but I fear won't.> He played in the wrong era, he was in the shadows of Henderson and Molitor plus his best years were wasted in Montreal. By the way I agree, he should be in there and he's better than a number of stiffs who already are, in my opinion. |
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