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| Nov-16-12 | | Shams: <JB> 1. Radbourn may or may not be responsible for the term "Charley horse" 2. More interestingly, he is the earliest known person to flip the bird to the camera:
http://www.cracked.com/article_1989... I love how surly he is.
Flipping the bird goes back to Roman times, I read once. |
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Nov-16-12
 | | Phony Benoni: <Shams> Radbourn being responsible for the term "Charley Horse" seems to me one of those factoids that is too obvious to be true. I know Wikipedia makes the conjecture, but they also cite some interesting articles, in one of which H. L. Mencken comes to the conclusion that it derives from a colloquialism which referred to old, lame horses as "Charlie". That makes more sense to me, if only because a "Charley horse" is normally a leg injury and Radbourn's muscle aches were confined to his arm. http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/83bf...
He was one surly dude, and came to a sad end. |
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| Nov-16-12 | | playground player: <Shams> Amazing photo--there can be no doubt that Old Hoss was ticked off at somebody or something. Wonder what or who it was? |
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| Nov-16-12 | | Jim Bartle: I was anxious to look when I read "Blockbuster Trade" between Toronto and Miami. But honestly, though there were twelve players, it doesn't seem like a blockbuster to me. A blockbuster would be Cincinnati trading Lee May and Tommy Helms for Joe Morgan, Cesar Geronimo and three others. Big time players going both ways. |
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| Nov-16-12 | | Shams: <JB> Didn't the Marlins have a fire sale after they won their first pennant, 1997 I want to believe? Then a few years later they won another one. I think they are the only team never to lose a postseason series. And now another fire sale-- will the baseball gods continue to reward this behavior? |
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Nov-16-12
 | | WannaBe: The Marlins held 2 firesales, after each of their World Series victory. And yes, they have only made the post-season twice in their history. |
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| Nov-16-12 | | Jim Bartle: The Marlins totally wiped out their team after winning the 1997 World Series. I didn't know they did it after 2003. In 1997 the owner, the Blockbuster guy, just said he'd lost too much money and wasn't going to lose more. Too bad, because the 1997 was one of the most exciting I've watched, with Edgar RenterÃa getting the winning hit in the 10th inning of Game 7. What's odd this time is that they'd spent a ton of money to sign players before this season. Now they've traded away some of those same players. |
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| Nov-16-12 | | Shams: I think back in the early 90s the Padres gutted their whole squad, earning much bad publicity. Has any team done it since, besides San Diego and Miami? |
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Nov-16-12
 | | OhioChessFan: <The 19th century pitcher Charles "Old Hoss" Radbourn once won 60 games in a season. (He pitched the last 27 games of the season, winning 26 of them.) He was also a pretty good hitter. But he is notable for another reason too-- what is it? (Two answers accepted.)> I saw a historical pic of him Sunday, and am sure that is one of the answers. |
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Nov-16-12
 | | WannaBe: http://www.businessinsider.com/mlb-... The new modern day leper. |
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| Nov-16-12 | | Jim Bartle: So if I understand correctly, the other owners in the AL East are upset with Miami because they seem to have donated three good established major league players to Toronto in exchange for nothing in current major leaguers. This reminds me of San Francisco fans going ballistic when San Diego traded Fred McGriff to Atlanta in July of 1993, turning their weakest position (Sid Bream) to one of their strongest. And Atlanta gave up nothing of value on their current team to get him. The Giants led Atlanta by maybe 7 or 8 games at the time of the trade. Naturally McGriff went on a tear, driving in 50 runs in about 70 games. And the Giants won 103 games, their best season ever, and lost the division by one stinking game. Looking up McGriff, I see that the Braves' top four of Maddox, Smoltz, Glavine and Avery went 75-23 that year. Has to be one of the best winning percentages for a rotation ever. |
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Nov-16-12
 | | Phony Benoni: <The 19th century pitcher Charles "Old Hoss" Radbourn once won 60 games in a season. (He pitched the last 27 games of the season, winning 26 of them.)> Let's settle this right now. That is not completely accurate, as you can see from the game log of the 1884 Providence Grays: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... His biggest stretch of work was 28 of 29 games from August 9-September 24, including 21 in a row at one point. He won 25 of these games, including streaks of 18 (one win occurring before the workload) and 8 in a row. After losing two in a row in late September, he pitched only once in the next 10 days and seemed to regain his effectiveness. By the way, his 678.2 innings that year is <not> the major league record! That goes to Will While of the 1879 Cincinnati Reds, with 680 innings. http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... Note that White pitched 75 complete games in an 84 game schedule, including 22 in a row at one point. But he only won 43 games, and is forgotten today. |
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| Nov-16-12 | | Shams: <Phony Benoni> I was quoting directly from the cracked.com article, without checking-- I should know better with this crowd. Also, apparently his sixtieth win was recently stripped, leaving him at fifty-nine for that season? Sorry, I don't have a link. |
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| Nov-16-12 | | Shams: <JB><So if I understand correctly, the other owners in the AL East are upset with Miami because they seem to have donated three good established major league players to Toronto in exchange for nothing in current major leaguers.> I think the other teams have a legitimate gripe in situations like this. David Stern just blocked a trade in the NBA on grounds that is was lopsided. Has a baseball commish ever done the same? |
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Nov-16-12
 | | Phony Benoni: <Shams> Wikipedia explains Radbourn's win total well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charle... Briefly, the official scorer in 1884 gave Radbourn a win in a situation where he would be awarded a save under current rules. Most older sources stick with 60 wins, while most modern one go with 59. |
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Nov-16-12
 | | WannaBe: From google search, and Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commis... <Though he had a reputation as an owners' commissioner, Kuhn did not avoid confronting owners when he deemed it necessary. For example, he was a major adversary of Oakland Athletics owner Charles O. Finley. A major embarrassment for baseball resulted from Finley's actions during the 1973 World Series. Finley forced player Mike Andrews to sign a false affidavit saying he was injured after the reserve infielder committed two consecutive errors in the 12th inning of Oakland's Game 2 loss to the New York Mets. Andrews' teammates as well as manager Dick Williams rallied to his defense. Kuhn in return, forced Finley to reinstate Andrews. In 1976, when Finley attempted to sell several players to the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees for $3.5 million, Kuhn blocked the deals on the grounds that they would be bad for the game. Some believe that Kuhn's actions were simply a revenge tactic, aimed at Finley, after Finley attempted to force an owners vote to remove Kuhn as commissioner in 1975.> |
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| Nov-16-12 | | Shams: <WannaBe><Finley forced player Mike Andrews to sign a false affidavit saying he was injured after the reserve infielder committed two consecutive errors in the 12th inning of Oakland's Game 2 loss to the New York Mets.> Interesting. What was Finley's angle in demanding the affidavit? |
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Nov-17-12
 | | Phony Benoni: <Shams> I assume that Andrews could have been replaced on the roster were he injured; otherwise, the team would be a player short. |
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| Nov-17-12 | | Shams: <Phony Benoni> Thanks, I didn't know you could replace injured guys. |
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Nov-17-12
 | | Phony Benoni: <Shams> Here's a biography of Mike Andrews. No Hoss Radbourn on the field, but a great success afterward. http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/7f1f... |
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| Nov-17-12 | | Jim Bartle: Shams: "Has a baseball commish ever done the same?"
Yes, absolutely. In 1976, I think, Charlie Finley sold off (cash only) Fingers, Rudi and Blue rather than risk losing them to free agency, which was in its first year. Commissioner Bowie Kuhn voided the deals. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/va... |
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Nov-17-12
 | | WannaBe: If we hold on, and win the Pac-12 south, our next game is them Tree at Rose Bowl, then Oregon at Eugene, then a bowl game. (Holiday? San Diego? Vegas?) |
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| Nov-17-12 | | Jim Bartle: Looks like it's closing time for Lane Kiffin and his ego. Couldn't happen to a more rotten guy. |
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Nov-17-12
 | | WannaBe: Alright, Tree and Ducks started, so is KSU and Baylor. Fine evenin' for some pigskin!! |
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Nov-17-12
 | | WannaBe: It is possible, that in few more hours, Notre Dame will be the only undefeated left... |
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