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| Feb-07-07 | | hitman84: <I guess I'm the only sissy here. X(> <Chessmoron>You're not a sissy, mate! <Jess>The stripe might alarm the first timers. |
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| Feb-07-07 | | hitman84: Where is our hi-tech voyager Marco ?
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Feb-07-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Hitman>
Like Batman, <Marco> will "Explain on the way." |
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| Feb-07-07 | | hitman84: <Jess>
<Like Batman, <Marco> will "Explain on the way."> and later.. Like Superman, <Marco> will go "up up and away" |
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| Feb-07-07 | | Marco65: He he. Superman, Batman... My "mighty brain" has just found out I forgot to pay a stupid Italian "car ownership tax" for almost 3 years! I had to dedicate some time to that unfortunately ("wasting time on your personal life? No way --double whip--"). Philosophically, I don't like to retreat a knight until my opponent forces me to do so, so I would vote 7...Nc6 just because of that! The fact that Fritz8's opening database marks that move in green (meaning it's something Fritz itself might play) makes me feel confident in playing it. 7...Nc6 8.h3 Nf6 has already been examined by <hitman84> with two interesting games, I add that 9.g4 is another interesting line. Fritz database likes 9...Nxd4 and 9...e6 at this point. The latter seems a sort of Scheveningen / Keres attack where White played an extra move (h3) and Black two extra moves (...a6 and ...Nc6). But I also wonder if the immediate 9...d5 would be playable at this point? After 7...Nc6 8.f3 the safe way is to go back to a standard Najdorf by 8...Nf6. But since I would hate playing other 10 moves of theory, can I dare to propose 8...Qb6 as played in the already mentioned T Nedev vs Gelfand, 2004? All in all, if it was good for Gelfand it should be good for us! I admit I'm not contributing much but I wasted almost all my time in wondering why White didn't play 9.Nd5 in that game, and I think I found the answer. Black ends up much better after all the complications, but I don't want to bother you with my (normally faulty) analysis unless someone else shows some interest in playing 8...Qb6 after 7...Nc6 8.f3. So... my vote also to 7...Nc6!
Good night/afternoon |
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| Feb-07-07 | | TTLump: this is mostly for comic relief, but perhaps it gives us a reason NOT to play 7...Nf6 ?? Korneev,Oleg 2560 vs. Sakaev,Konstantin 2620
1998, RUS-Cup02 - Round 9, Moscow, ECO B90
Sicilian: Najdorf
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 Ng4 7.Bc1 Nf6 8.Be3 1/2-1/2 seriously though, I found 256 games with our current position on ChessWorld.Net's Master's Collection (of which the above game was one). For the position after our next proposed move, (7...Nc6), there are 31 games in the same collection, 10 for White, 13 for Black and 8 Draws. So, it seems we might be on to something with this variation. |
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Feb-07-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: That's five votes for Nc6--
One more and we're over the hump!!
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Feb-07-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <Marco> and <team> If they play 8.f3 Count me in on the <Gelfand> Qb6 train... As I said when I posted the FEN of this game (which <TTLump> found) after 15 moves, it's quite wild early and out of book. I like it. I think our opponents are going to err on the side of caution. So let's stick it to them.
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Feb-07-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: LOL <TTLump> nothing like an 8 move draw!! I was giggling yesterday about the surreal idea of Ng4 Bc1, Nf6 Be3, Ng4 Bc1... and on to infinity!!! |
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| Feb-07-07 | | brankat: It is not as easy to be an "Alchemist" today as it may have been a "grand" ago :-) Seems to me You were born at least a thounsand years too late! Talking about having patient parents(or is it storks?)! I have a feeling our buddy <jess> believes in storks' power :-) |
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Feb-07-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <branko> Do Storks play wild Black Najdorfs? Always interested in Natural History, it's true... |
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| Feb-07-07 | | TTLump: ... except that same Master Game collection shows 10 games with 8.Be2, 5 for White, 2 for Black and 3 draws, so ... I am still undecided ... |
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Feb-07-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <TTLump> I predicted above they will try 8.Be2 if we play Nc6-- It looks like solid move-- but I don't think it puts us in any immediate jeopardy, or compromises our development at all. Don't forget that if we add up all of our 10 brains, it would make a brain 10 times the volume of Kasparov's brain!!! |
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| Feb-08-07 | | brankat: <queen:-)> <Kasparov's brain!!!> The x-ray of which our buddy <chessmoron> had for his Avatar until very recently :-) |
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| Feb-08-07 | | Marco65: Good morning! Also against 8.Be2 Qb6 seems playable, any game about that? |
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| Feb-08-07 | | Zebra: <Marco65: Good morning! Also against 8.Be2 Qb6 seems playable, any game about that?> Two in the database, both draws:
Opening Explorer |
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| Feb-08-07 | | Zebra: <Our African <ungulate> has returned!!> Morning all! Maybe we should add "evolved in Africa" to my bio? |
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| Feb-08-07 | | Marco65: Yes, there are games!
In http://www.chesslab.com/PositionSea... I could find a <Klovans,J - Murey,J Saint Vincent 2003> that is not in CG and goes like that: 1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 d6
3. d4 cxd4
4. Nxd4 Nf6
5. Nc3 a6
6. Be3 Ng4
7. Bc1 Nc6
8. Be2 Qb6
9. Bxg4 Qxd4
10. Qxd4 Nxd4
11. Bd1 Be6
12. Be3 Nc6
13. Na4 O-O-O
14. Nb6+ Kb8
15. c3 g6
16. Bb3 Bxb3
17. axb3 f5
18. Ra4 Bg7
19. Ke2 Rhf8
20. Rd1 f4
21. Bc1 e6
22. Nc4 Kc7
23. Nd2 g5
24. h3
1/2-1/2
Then we have V Laznicka vs A Czebe, 2005. Especially looking at the latter I'm not exhaulted by 8.Be2 Qb6 any more. I find it more interesting 8.Be2 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 e5 like in <Gagunashvili,M - Molina,T Sharjah 2003> (again, in chesslab) that goes on with 10.Qd3 Qh4 11.Bxg4 Qxg4 12.O-O Be6 reaching an interesting position that reminds me of Sveshnikov Sicilian. Molina lost, but there was a 300 ELO points gap! |
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| Feb-08-07 | | Zebra: I am still a bit uneasy about the idea of allowing white 8.f3 with tempo. 8 ...Qb6 (Gelfand) looks fine, though I'm a bit sceptical about all that later manoeuvring with his KB, only to exchange it off. In case of 8.Be2 we seem to be looking at a pretty ordinary Scheveningen (sorry <Marco> ;), and I'm not sure that b6 is the natural place for our queen. |
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Feb-08-07
 | | TheAlchemist: Here's my two cents (Euros, of course). Personally, Qb6-xd4 doesn't appeal to me, because I don't like trading Queens so early (like in Laznicka-Czebe), in fact, I'd prefer if we didn't at all, but that's just me. After 9.Nxc6 we have to take the draw with Qf2+ and Qe3+, but I'm sure White won't go for that. So, in case of 8.Be2 I'd be more in favor of Nf6 and going into a classical Schevenigen structure (White probably won't go for f3 etc. then), where we should be fine. In case of 8.f3 I'd go for 8...Nf6 9.Be3 etc.: Opening Explorer And, completely off topic, since today is our cultural holiday, here's a poem (one of my personal favorites) celebrating it :-) The Master Theme
A Slovene wreath your poet has entwined;
A record of my pain and of your praise,
Since from my heart's deep roots have sprung these lays,
These tear-stained flowers of a poet's mind.
They come from where no man can sunshine find,
Unblest by soothing winds of warmer days;
Above them savage peaks the mountains raise,
Where tempests roar and nature is unkind.
They were all fed on many a plaint and tear;
Frail growth these blossoms had, so sad and few,
As over them Malignant storm-clouds flew.
Behold how weak and faded they appear!
Send but your rays their glory to renew -
Fresh flowers will spread fragrance far and near. |
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| Feb-08-07 | | Marco65: <Zebra> <we seem to be looking at a pretty ordinary Scheveningen> I didn't feel that was already decided, but I may join you and hitman84 if you convince me at how Scheveningen is fun! About T Nedev vs Gelfand, 2004 game the exchange you mentioned happens at move 31, I have never said we have to copy Gelfand that far. I'm already not enthusiast of his 11...Qb6 |
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| Feb-08-07 | | Marco65: <After 9.Nxc6 we have to take the draw with Qf2+ and Qe3+> (7...Nc6 8.Be2 Qb6) 9.Nxc6? Qxf2+ 10.Kd2 bxc6 11.Rf1 Qh4 keeps the extra pawn and White lost the right to castle. Anyway as I said I'm not proposing 8.Be2 Qb6 any more but I like 8.Be2 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 e5, and 8...Qb6 only in case of 8.f3 (after Gelfand) |
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Feb-08-07
| | TheAlchemist: <9.Nxc6? Qxf2+ 10.Kd2 bxc6 11.Rf1 Qh4> Right, of course, thanks. I completely missed that g4 was guarded twice after Qh4. I like 8.f3 Qb6 better than 8.Be2 Qb6, since after 9.fxg4 Qxd4 White can't trade queens because he loses a pawn after 10.Qxd4 Nxd4 and 11...Bxg4. We are somewhat behind in development, but I think we can untangle. In the Gelfand game, White played 10.Bd3, and that Bishop was quite weak throughout the game. The queen on d4 did a great job in preventing O-O, and White had to play Qe2, Bd2 and O-O-O, in the meantime Gelfand played e6, Be7 and Bf6, which seemed very good place for the bishop to me. I also liked how Gelfand didn't castle since there was no need for it and White had no real attack to build. Black's position after 17...Rc8 seemed very good and after the trade of Queens, his endgame prospects were very good as well, because White's bishop on d3 is weak, Black's knight had a great outpost on e5. So far, I'm for Nc6 now and in case of 8.f3 for 8...Qb6, while after 8.Be2 I'd prefer to play 8...Nf6. |
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Feb-08-07
| | TheAlchemist: <I'm already not enthusiast of his 11...Qb6> That was probably to prevent Be3 (Qxb2). |
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| Feb-08-07 | | Zebra: I am with <the Alchemist>'s summary, as indeed I should be on his national holiday and with two cents' worth of new Slovenian euros. <Marco> I didn't mean to advocate a Scheveningen as such. I just didn't see that there is enough difference between our position after 8.Be2 and an ordinary Scheveningen to justify putting the queen on b6. But I am open to persuasion. |
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