|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 70 OF 129 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Apr-05-07 | | brankat: <The team> I was not really serious about 24h/per a move. Said that just to counter <Akavall>'s proposal of more, and longer timeouts. So, I suggest a compromise:
--- still 48 h/move
--- I'll add ONE more timeout for each team, but only 24 hours each. --- After move 40 (if the game lasts that long)-- 1 more 24h timeout per a team. I think this should be satisfactory for both teams. |
|
| Apr-05-07 | | mckmac: <Marco65> So the position following 20.Bd3 Bxh1 21.Rxh1 h6 22.f5 Bg5 is this: 
click for larger view
If White now plays 23.Bc4 one line could continue 23...Bxe3 24.Qxe3 Nf6 25.gxf7+ Kh8 26.Qg3 Nh7 27.Qg6 Qf6 
click for larger view
Both sides are tied down, but White might have run out of ammunition,and their f7 upstart has a limited future. 25.Bxf7+(and if we choose not to return the exchange)25...Kh8 26.Qa7 a5 (..Qa5 27.b3 e4) 27.b3 e4 28.Nb2 d5 [I haven't had time to look at much of this yet] |
|
Apr-06-07
 | | TheAlchemist: So, what do you all think about <brankat>'s proposal? I think it sounds good. |
|
| Apr-06-07 | | mckmac: <Team> A possibly critical position(as covered by Marco earlier): if they play 20.Bg2.Line goes 20.Bg2 Bf5 21.gxf7+ Rxf7! 22.Bd5 Qa5 23.Bxf7+ Kxf7 
click for larger view
[24.Qd5 Qxd5 25.Rxd5 Be4] |
|
Apr-06-07
| | TheAlchemist: 20.Bg2 played. I think 20...Bf5 was already suggested multiple times. |
|
Apr-06-07
| | TheAlchemist: <chessmoron>'s original analysis: 20...Bf5 21.gxf7+ Kh8 22.h6 g6 23.Bd5
This is the joint analysis of <Marco>, <mckmac> and me: 20...Bf5 21.gxf7 Rxf7 22.Bd5 Qa5 23.Bxf7 Kxf7 24.b3 Rc8! and we are better (24.Qd5+ Qxd5 25.Rxd5 Be4) I would like to add here, that there's the possibility of complicating issues with 24.fxe5. Does that lead white anywhere? He opens up the f-file where our king is, so if we accept the sacrifice with 24...Qxa4 white could play 25.Rf1. Here we have 25...g6 26.Qd5+ Ke8 and our king is trapped in the center. Whether white can take advantage of that is another issue. |
|
Apr-06-07
| | TheAlchemist: I just realized something, we started this game on page 15, now we're on 70. At least it makes my forum seem more popular, hehe. |
|
| Apr-06-07 | | mckmac: <TheAlchemist> 24.fxe5 is a very good point. Grabbing the knight (as you demonstrate, 24...Qxa4 25.Rf1 g6 26.Qd5+ Ke8),leads to trouble for us,and a fine ol' sporting time for white.They could then sac the exchange as well, 27.Rxf5 gxf5 28.exd6 and black's position seems to fall apart.There's no holding square for our bishop and white has any number of mating threats. |
|
Apr-07-07
| | TheAlchemist: <mckmac> Yes, thanks! I was wondering abot Rxf5 too, but somehow didn't notice that exd6 was practically winning, hehe, don't ask me how. Anyway, I think we can avoid all that by simply playing 24...Nxe5. |
|
| Apr-07-07 | | Zebra: Is it worth looking at ...Nf6 as our next move? It was mentioned once or twice but not really analyzed as far as I can remember. It looks to defuse the situation a bit as far as I can see, even though white can exchange bishops and attack the knight with tempo (it just goes back to f6). |
|
| Apr-07-07 | | hitman84: Hi guys, I analysed the critical line..
proposed by <Marco> and <mckmac>I feel the exchange sac is very dangerous for us and leads to a very complex position in which we will have to defend. <Zebra>Nice to have you back, BTW you forgot to move on GK. <The Alchemist>
<I just realized something, we started this game on page 15, now we're on 70. At least it makes my forum seem more popular, hehe.>Great going! You'll need to host at least another 3 such consultation games to beat <EA>. My analysis coming up...
|
|
| Apr-07-07 | | Zebra: <BTW you forgot to move on GK> Oops, I missed a move. If you now move Bxe4 and I move g6, we'll be upto date again. Sorry about that. |
|
| Apr-07-07 | | Marco65: <mckmac><TheAlchemist> I agree with your analysis and couldn't find any improvement for us after 20...Bf5 21.gxf7+ Rxf7 22.Bd5 Qa5 23.Bxf7+ Kxf7 24.fxe5. And the sac can't be refused: 24...Nxe5 25.Qd5+ Qxd5 26.Rxd5 Be4 27.Rf1+ this time doesn't work, White retains its material advantage. Also the immediate 22...Rc8 (instead of 22...Qa5) is met by 23.Bxf7+ Kxf7 24.Qd5+ Therefore I'm with <hitman84>, the problem is 21...Rxf7?! Let's just play (20...Bf5 21.gxf7+) 21...Kh8 22.Bd5 Qa5 23.Bb3 [or 22.b3 Rbc8] 23...Be4 .
click for larger view
and now White is in big trouble because of the threat ...Bc6, I think we'll win the exchange at minimum
<Zebra> I remember at the beginning I proposed 20...Nf6 against 20.Bd3. Then I think I didn't like 21.Bxe4 Nxe4 22.gxh7+ Kh8 23.Qg2 but that's probably playble (23...Qa5 now?). I still prefer 20...Bf5 though. |
|
| Apr-07-07 | | Zebra: <marco> Or possibly 23...d5 ? (in the 20 ...Nf6 line, that is). |
|
| Apr-07-07 | | mckmac: A couple of positions pointed out by <Marco65> and <Zebra>: After 20.,,Bf5 21.gxf7+ Rxf7 22.Bd5 Qa5 23.Bxf7+ Kxf7 24.fxe5 Nxe5 25.Qd5+ Qxd5 26.Rxd5 Be4 27.Rf1+ 
click for larger viewAfter 20...Nf6 21.Bxe4 Nxe4 22.gxh7+ Kh8 (22...Rxf7 23.Qd5 Nf6 looks ok here) 23.Qg2 d5 
click for larger view |
|
| Apr-08-07 | | mckmac: Hi guys,This is the kind of assault we might face if white continues to press the attack,disregarding immediate material loss.There are alternate moves of course,but I am hoping not too many actual holes in this particular line. So leading on after 23...Be4(the FEN in Marco's last post) 24.Rhg1 Bc6 25.f5 Bxa4 26.h6 g6 27.Bg5 Bxg5 28.Qxg5 Bxb3 29.fxg6 Bxf7 30.g7+ Kg8 31. gxf8=Q+ Kxf8 32.Qg7+ Ke8 33.Rdf1 Qxa2 34.Qxh7 
click for larger view That's me finished for the day(22:30 here).As long as nothing astounding turns up--my vote goes on 20...Bf5. |
|
Apr-08-07
| | TheAlchemist: Ok, I did some more analysis, I hope there aren't major flaws... I think 20...Bf5 21.gxf7+ Rxf7 22.Bd5 Qa5 23.Bxf7+ Kxf7 24.fxe5 Nxe5 25.Qd5+ Qxd5 26.Rxd5 Be4 27.Rf1+ still isn't that bad after 27...Ke6 28.Rd2 Nc4 29.Rd4 d5. The problem here is that we could at most achieve a draw, I think. Although white has to be careful, 28.Rd1? Rc8 29.Rd2 Nc4 30.Re2 Nxe3 31.Rxe3 Bg5 and black wins. 20...Bf5 21.gxf7+ Kh8 22.Bd5 Qa5 23.Bb3 Be4 and here the problem is that after 24.Rhg1 and the intended 24...Bc6 25.fxe5! and again we are faced with problems, either 25...Nxe5 26.Bh6! or 25...Bxa4 26.Qg2. In both cases we are f*****. Certainly we would need a better 24th move. Maybe we could just play 20...Bxg2 21.gxh7+ Kxh7 22.Qxg2 Qa5 23.Rhg1 Rg8 24.b3 Kh8? It seems awkward, but other lines don't seem much better to me... 
click for larger viewBTW, happy Easter to all of you who celebrate it. |
|
| Apr-08-07 | | Marco65: <Zebra> If you really intend to support 20...Nf6 you should also analyze 21.Bxe4 Nxe4 22.Qg2 d5/Qa5 23.h6, this kind of attack was found irresistible when we examined 19...Qa5 (and therefore rejected that move). Proving that 20...Nf6 is tactically sound is the first step, imho it's also a positional mistake. Despite dominating the long a8-h1 diagonal, the g2 bishop is inferior to its counterpart in f5: it is not attacking anything (while we have real threats against c2), and it's an obstacle both in the g file (where their rook would like to go) and in the 2nd rank (limiting their queen's movements). |
|
| Apr-08-07 | | hitman84: Guys I vote Bf5 which I think is forced.
Analysis later :)
<Zebra>Qg2 is a killer as <Marco> points out. |
|
Apr-08-07
| | TheAlchemist: I'm also still in favor of Bf5, but some lines will have to be thoroughly revisited, I think. |
|
| Apr-08-07 | | Zebra: Yes, I think I will switch to Bf5 as well. Thanks, <Marco>. I probably won't be around again today or tomorrow (important deadline coming up at work). |
|
Apr-08-07
| | TheAlchemist: 20...Bf5 posted. |
|
| Apr-08-07 | | Marco65: <TheAlchemist> <some lines will have to be thoroughly revisited, I think> Agreed, probably it is very premature to move all our forces to the queenside as I proposed. I didn't find any flaw in your analysis. After 21.gxf7+ Kh8 22.Bd5 Qa5 23.Bb3 Be4 24.Rhg1 Bc6 25.fxe5 Nxe5 26.Bh6, also 26...Bf6 27.Bxg7+! Bxg7 28.Rxg7! Nxf7 29.Rxf7 Rxf7 30.Bxf7 Bxa4? 31.Qxd6 loses for us. So now I propose (after 21.gxf7+ Kh8 22.Bd5) 22...Rc8 23.Bb3 Be4 24.Rhg1 d5
click for larger view
This is more prudent, and now 25.fxe5 Nxe5 26.Bh6? gxh6 27.Qxh6 Rxf7 doesn't work any more |
|
| Apr-08-07 | | Marco65: Happy Easter, team! |
|
| Apr-08-07 | | chessmoron: Happy Easter. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 70 OF 129 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
