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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 69 OF 129 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Apr-04-07 | | Marco65: <brankat> <Maybe it has to do with a number of players = 10> It was my point some posts ago. Re your proposal, 24h is a suicide for me. As you see few players participate in the analysis, but with that amendment there would be no time for discussion, just the first in the right timezone posts something and others vote. But I'm also against conceding more or longer timeouts, and I asked <Alchemist> to ask the team what they think of (with no reply so far). My opinion is that the rules must stay as they are. |
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| Apr-04-07 | | mckmac: <The Alchemist> Taking the exchange looks ok to me too. Position after 19...Bxe4 20.Bd3 Bxh1 21.gxh7 Kh8 22.Rxh1 
click for larger view Black's possibles from here include 22...Qa5,exf4,Nf6,f5 19...Qa5 20.gxh7 Kxh7 21.b3 Bxe4 22.Bd3 Qd5 seems both solid and active (so I guess 19...Qa5 needs to join 19...Bxe4 and h6(?)as 'candidate moves') 
click for larger view After 22...Qd5 |
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| Apr-04-07 | | Marco65: <TheAlchemist> I think against 19...Qa5 they can play as I proposed against 19...Bc6, that is: 19...Qa5 20.h6!? Qxa4? 21.gxh7+ Kh8 22.hxg7+ Kxg7 23.Qg2+ Kh8 24.Bc4 and 25.Rdg1 seems a terrific attack. Of course 20...Qxa4? is a mistake, but our king will get uncovered in any case. <chessmoron><mckmac><The Alchemist> Great analysis for 19...Bxe4 20.Bg2! I think 20.Bg2 is better than 20.Bd3 because now exchanging bishops is dangerous: 20...Bxg2?! 21.gxh7+ Kxh7 22.Qxg2 with good chances of attack. Instead as said 20...Bf5 21.gxf7+ Rxf7! 22.Bd5 Qa5 23.Bxf7+ Kxf7 is good, now also 24.Qd5+ fails to 24...Qxd5 25.Rxd5 Be4 and Black remains one pawn ahead. <TheAlchemist> Of course 19...Bxe4 20.Bd3 Bxh1 is critical, but my idea was to see if the safest reply (20...Bxd3) held. If it didn't resist the attack, we could forget that 20...Bxh1 could. We can analyse 20...Bxh1 the next move if 19...Bxe4 20.Bd3 is played My vote stay with 19...Bxe4 so far. |
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| Apr-04-07 | | mckmac: <Marco> Good Gravy! Going back a bit,one line leading from 21.cxd3 goes 21...fxg6 22.hxg6 exf4 23.gxh7+ Kh8 24.Bd4 Ne5 |
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| Apr-04-07 | | hitman84: Great analysis guys!
I waded through the analysis and I agree with <Marco> that 20.Bg2 poses a lot of problems. 19. g6 Qa5
20. h6 hxg6
21. hxg7 Kxg7
22. f5 Bxe4
23. Bh6+ Kg8
24. Bxf8 Nxf8
25. Rh2 Qxa4
26. Qh6 Bf6
27. Rxd6 Bg7
28. Qh4 Bxf5
click for larger view19. g6 Qa5
20. h6 hxg6
21. f5 Bxe4
22. hxg7 Bxh1
23. gxf8=Q+ Nxf8
24. Bd3 e4
25. Rxh1 exd3
26. fxg6 Nxg6
27. b3 Qe5
click for larger view19. g6 Qa5
20. h6 hxg6
21. f5 Bxe4
22. Bg2 Bxf5
23. hxg7 Kxg7
24. Bh6+ Kg8
25. Bxf8 Nxf8
26. Qh6 Bf6
27. b3 e4
click for larger view
with multiple threats..
Bg4 followed by Bg5+ or Qe5 followed by Qa1+
At the moment I stick with <Qa5> |
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Apr-04-07
 | | TheAlchemist: As far as I'm concerned, we can go either way regarding the rules, right now I could probably even manage 1 day per move, but I don't know for the others. Marco has already stated he couldn't, and he fact that some of us appear quite infrequently suggests me, that they can't either. I think the problem is with time zones, we can't have a proper discussion in just 1 day. I'm ok with abolishing time outs, if that's what others want, and fix the 2 day per move time limit. |
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| Apr-04-07 | | hitman84: I second that <brankat>. |
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| Apr-04-07 | | mckmac: Gentlemen.It's 11:30 pm here and well past my bed-time.I have been awaiting further developments,but everyone must be busy. <Hitman84> Your analysis in support of Qa5 is very impressive.I've played through the variations,but I have not had enough time to properly digest them.So,for no other reason than that, I have to go with what I am sure of--mark me down for 19...Bxe4! |
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| Apr-04-07 | | Zebra: I have looked through the very impressive analysis (thanks guys) but have not yet decided. Will be back. <brankat> I don't think one day per move will work at all. About timeouts I have no strong feelings. |
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| Apr-04-07 | | WarmasterKron: <TheAlchemist> Here's something for your draw collection: V Milov vs Bacrot, 2001 |
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Apr-04-07
| | TheAlchemist: <WarmasterKron> Thanks! |
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| Apr-04-07 | | Marco65: <hitman84> I think you are underestimating our opponents' attack. 19...Qa5 20.h6 hxg6 21.Qh2 and now the only decent defence I can see ends with a king hunt: 21...f5 22.hxg7 Kxg7 23.Qh7+ Kf6 24.fxe5+ Ke6 [24....Kxe5 25.Qxe7+; 24...Anyxe5 25.Bg5+! and 26.Qxe7] 25.Qxg6+ Kxe5 and I don't think we need to analyze further. I start to think we'd better mark such move as 19...Qa5?? On the contrary, 19...Bxe4 fulfills both attacking and defensive purposes. |
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| Apr-04-07 | | Zebra: At present I have to agree with <Marco>. Qa5 would have been good a few moves ago, but this is not the moment for a queenside demonstration. |
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| Apr-04-07 | | hitman84: <Marco>I saw that fleetingly and thought that our king could escape via f6, boy was I wrong. But here are some crappy lines that give us an advantage. 19. g6 Qa5
20. h6 hxg6
21. Qh2 Bxe4
22. hxg7 Kxg7
23. Qh6+ Kf6
24. fxe5+ Nxe5
25. Bg5+ Ke6
26. Bh3+ f5
27. Bxe7 Kxe7
28. Qg7+ Ke6
29. Rh-e1 Rf7
30. Qh6 d5
31. b3 Rc8
click for larger view19. g6 Qa5
20. h6 hxg6
21. Qh2 Bxe4
22. hxg7 Kxg7
23. Qh7+ Kf6
24. fxe5+ Nxe5
25. Bh3 Rh8
26. Rd-f1+ Bf5
click for larger view19. g6 Qa5
20. h6 hxg6
21. Qh2 Bxe4
22. hxg7 Kxg7
23. Qh6+ Kf6
24. Qg5+ Ke6
25. Bh3+ f5
26. Qxg6+ Rf6
click for larger viewEverything looks forced to me :)
Correct me if I'm wrong.
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| Apr-04-07 | | chessmoron: <hitman84> Give it up already. :) If I see another Qa5 analysis I think I'll strangle myself. (joking of course) |
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| Apr-04-07 | | hitman84: <chessmoron>Yup, the bloody Najdorf :) Ok one last main line..
19. g6 Qa5
20. h6 hxg6
21. b3 Bf6
22. Qh2 Rf-c8
23. hxg7 Bxg7
24. Qh7+ Kf8
25. fxe5 Qxe5
26. Bh6 Qa1+
27. Kd2 Bxh6+
28. Qxh6+ Qg7
click for larger view19. g6 Qa5
20. h6 hxg6
21. b3 Bf6
22. Qh2 Rf-c8
23. hxg7 Bxg7
24. Qh7+ Kf8
25. Rxd6 Nf6
26. Qh4 Bxe4
click for larger view |
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| Apr-04-07 | | Marco65: <hitman84> Too little time left to analyze at the point one can feel safe to enter such variations. Anyway if I were White that's how I would attack: 19...Qa5 20.h6 hxg6 21.Qh2 Bxe4 22.hxg7 Kxg7 23.Qh6+ (you'll see later why it's better here than in h7) Kf6 24.fxe5+ Nxe5 25.Bh3 (here we are, now if 25...Rh8 26.Bg5#) 25...Bf5 26.Bxf5 Kxf5 27.Qh3+ now the king can't retreat to f6, notice we are only two pawns ahead while White will have all the fun. |
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| Apr-04-07 | | hitman84: <Marco>Yes 25.Bh3 is the killer move! I guess Bxe4 it is then.
My vote Bxe4. |
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Apr-04-07
| | TheAlchemist: I just posted 19...Bxe4 |
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| Apr-04-07 | | Marco65: <chessmoron><If I see another Qa5 analysis I think I'll strangle myself> There was already a clear majority for 19...Bxe4, but you gave me a good reason to continue ;-) This game is getting very exciting. I think it will end in the next 10 moves, in a way or another! <mckmac> Sorry I only now looked at your 19...Bxe4 20.Bd3 Bxd3 21.cxd3 fxg6 22.hxg6 exf4. Now 23.Rxh7 scares me, although I failed to see anything decisive, e.g. 23...Bg5 24.Qh2 Bh6 25.Rh1 Nf6 26.Rxh6 gxh6 27.Qxh6 Qc7+ 28.Kb1 Qg7 |
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| Apr-04-07 | | mckmac: <TheAlchemist> On the subject of time-limits/time-outs, I support whatever the majority of the team decides in favour of. <Marco65> Crikey,23.Rxh7 mixes it up in that line :) The sequence you give starting 23...Bg5 looks almost forcing too. One possible line after 28...Qg7 (assuming we swap Queens) goes 29.Bxf4 Qxh6 30.Bxh6 Rfe8 31.Rf1 Re6 32.g7 Rb7 33.b3 Rf7 34.Nb2 Ng4 35.Rxf7 Kxf7 36.Bd2 a5 37.Nc4 All a long way away I know,but I also find this game very interesting! |
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| Apr-04-07 | | TTLump: wow, what a difference two little moves can make since I last checked in! Has anyone looked at 20.gxf7+ ? It seems to cause us some difficulties at first glance ... |
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| Apr-05-07 | | Marco65: <TTLump> I think nobody considered 20.gxf7. You were needed! Anyway I had some time to look at it and I think White doesn't get a lot with it: 20.gxf7+ Kh8 now if Rh1 moves then 21...Rxf7 and we just gained a defender of g7 for free. It's more interesting if they sac the exchange and try to keep f7 to create difficulties in our defence. Maybe the sac can be accepted, but I prefer another line: 20.gxf7+ Kh8 21.Bc4 Qa5 22.Bb3 [22.b3?! Rbc8 23.Bd3 Bxh1 24.Rxh1 exf4 25.Bxf4 Rxf7 and White has nothing for the exchange] 22...d5 23.Rhf1 Rc8 now we will calmly take back f7 and be much better |
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| Apr-05-07 | | Zebra: I had actually had a bit of a look at 20.gf and came to the same conclusion as <Marco>, that white's attack seems to run out of steam. |
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| Apr-05-07 | | Marco65: <mckmac> I'm on holiday now and I had some time to review 20.Bd3 Bxh1. I think now 21.gxh7+ is not dangerous, as you showed. While after 21.Rxh1 we must be careful:
click for larger view
White has still the usual h6 plan in his arsenal, for instance: 21...f5?? 22.Bc4+ Kh8 23.h6 and the game is already over (e.g. 23...hxg6 24.Qh2 e4 25.hxg7+ Kxg7 26.Qh6+ Kf6 27.Bf2! or 23...Rf6 24.hxg7+ Kxg7 25.Rxh7+ Kxg6 26.Qh2). Therefore, in that position we are forced to play 21...h6 22.f5 Bg5 that is very good to us since it forces exchanges. |
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