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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 72 OF 129 ·
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| Apr-11-07 | | hitman84: <TheAlchemist>/<Chessmoron> Ok then good night guys.
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Apr-11-07
 | | TheAlchemist: <hitman> G'night. |
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| Apr-11-07 | | Zebra: Oops, i missed the deadline. But Rc8 looks good to me too. |
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| Apr-12-07 | | Marco65: From April 5th on, I haven't seen any posts from: dakgootje, Swapmeet, TTLump, EmperorAtauhalpa. Where are you my friends? |
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| Apr-13-07 | | mckmac: White might take a look at this..
22.Bxf7+ Rxf7
23.gxf7+ Kh8 (23...Kf8 is another line here)
24.h6 g6 (24...Rxc2+ 25.Qxc2 Bxc2 26.hxg7+)
White plays for deciding pressure on the a1-h8 diagonal,and the [f]and[d] files. 25.Rhf1! Rxc2+
26.Qxc2 Bxc2
27.Kxc2 Qa5
28.b3 
click for larger view
Position after 28.b3 |
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| Apr-13-07 | | mckmac: Posted on brankat's page:
Akavall: <<<<<<<ATTENTION>>>>>>>
MFO plays <22. Bb3>. Played at 2:38 PM EST on April 13th. Next move due by 3:00 PM EST on April 15th. |
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Apr-13-07
| | TheAlchemist: <mckmac> Thanks! |
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| Apr-13-07 | | Marco65: 22.Bb3 only justifies our previous move. They are not taking any risk. But we have wasted hours of analysis! Now there are many candidate moves, the first that got my attention are: a) 22...Kh8
b) 22...Qa5 (with the idea 23...Bxc2 24.Bxc2 Qxa4, but it can be met by 23.Kb1) c) 22...Be4 (with the idea of 23...d5, it might have the same effect of 22...Kh8 of unpinning f7) |
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| Apr-13-07 | | mckmac: <Team>
So I guess a list of our possible candidate moves might look like:(i)d5 (ii)Qa5 (iii)Kh8 (iv)exf5 (v)Nf6 (vi)a5 (vii)Qc7 (viii)f5 (ix)h6 (x)Be6 (xi)Be4 Calling for all additions and subtractions please,and a show of hands! |
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| Apr-13-07 | | mckmac: Hi <Marco>,I crossed posts with you:) |
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| Apr-13-07 | | chessmoron: I going to vote for 22...Kh8.
Before forgot, watch <brankat> your organizer will be teaming up with Eric Schiller and Bill Wall vs Rybka (User: RandomVisitor) tomorrow at 13:00 EDT and vs Deep Fritz 10 (User: Artar1) Sunday at 13:00 EDT on the NEW YAHOO SERVER. Where:
http://games.yahoo.com/ch , then click "play now" on their NEW YAHOO chess game, when the java has finished click on "Advanced" tab. ROOM: Advanced Lounge 8 Table: TBA before game starts Time Control: 3 hours and 30 minutes
<See you all there!> |
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| Apr-13-07 | | mckmac: It seems to me that what we are undertaking here is an exercise in communication and co-operation,with the aim of consistently playing good chess moves.I haven't had the privilege of playing a consultation game before,but I imagined that a team would work best with some sort of flexible timetable, as a basis for using their thinking time productively.Something like: 1.The move comes in,is acknowledged,and all reasonable responses are listed. 2.This list is distilled to produce moves for analysis.Lines of communication are then kept open during analysis,so as to avoid duplicating effort,minimise mistakes/wild goose chases,and to acknowledge points of interest and agreement. 3.Analysis is made and posted leaving enough time (say 10hrs before deadline) for discussion and further analysis if needed. 4.Discussion.
5.Conclusion.
6.Vote(if required).
Of course,in the real world we all have busy schedules(in different time zones) and have to grab time when we can. Anyway,these are my thoughts,sorry to go on a bit-what do you guys think? |
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| Apr-14-07 | | Marco65: <mckmac> This is perfect in principle, but in practice we have little time to allow a tight communication. But I think at least everybody should declare which line one intends to analyze, I learned to do that and sometimes another member pointed out a simple refutation that saved me a lot of time. As per your candidate list, I think ...d5 just drops a pawn doesn't it? I also suspect ...h6 is very risky because of fxe5, Rg1 and then a bishop sac on h6. I like the plan...Be4 and then ...d5, and I'll probably analyse it tonight (12 hours from now) |
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| Apr-14-07 | | mckmac: Okay<Marco>,I have been able to look at 22...Kh8 briefly (specifically 23.gxf7 Be4 and 23.gxf7 Qa5) and will try to post something on these lines later tonight(3hrs time). <As per your candidate list, I think ...d5 just drops a pawn doesn't it? I also suspect ...h6 is very risky because of fxe5, Rg1 and then a bishop sac on h6.> Of course,that should have been "the list of all moves black can possibly play".Put up in light of the fact that three of white's last four moves have not been expected.This positon is a labyrinth to me,and as <Hitman84> said,move order can be critical. |
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| Apr-14-07 | | mckmac: A quick look at 22...Kh8.This puts the question to the g6 pawn. 22.Bb3 Kh8
23.gxf7 Be4
24.Rhf1(g1 and e1 are also options)
24..... d5
25.fxe5 Nxe5
26.h6 (26.Bd4 Bg5 27.Be3 Bxe3 28.Qxe3 Rxf7)
26.h6 causes problems here.The potential pin on the Ne5 needs to be sidestepped.At least taking on h6 diverts the bishop. 26..... gxh6
27.Bxh6 Rxf7
28.Rxf7 Nxf7 
click for larger view
Position after 28...Nxf7
At first glance,a shambles for black,but he is still breathing and has one or two countering threats. |
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| Apr-14-07 | | hitman84: 22. Bb3 Kh8
23. h6 fxg6
24. hxg7+ Kxg7
25. fxe5 Nxe5
26. Rxh7+ Kxh7
27. Rh1+ Bh4
28. Bg5 Nf3! 
click for larger view<mckmac>Good advice on getting organized as a team. I hope all the team members read it so that we could decide on distribution of load. More analysis later..
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Apr-14-07
| | TheAlchemist: <hitman> Wouldn't white play 26.Bh6 Kh8 27.Bxf8 instead? I think we already analyzed that (or a similar line), where we sacrifice the exchange and get good play. |
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| Apr-14-07 | | hitman84: <TheAlchemist>Yes, just another line :) |
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| Apr-14-07 | | Marco65: <hitman84><TheAlchemist> I think one good point of 20...Bf5 was to answer 22...Kh8 23.h6?! with 23...Bxg6. Now if 24.f5 (or fxe5) Bxf5 25.hxg7+ Kxg7 26.Bh6+ Kh8 27.Bxf8? Bg5 Even if White doesn't blunder we keep 2 extra pawns with our king reasonably safe. Anyway it's a defect of 22...Kh8 that we are obliged to capture the pawn if hxg7+ is played, it would be much better to use it as a shield |
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| Apr-14-07 | | Marco65: First some general considerations about our position. It is not an easy one because we'd like to: 1. keep our king safe
2. obstruct that a2-h7 diagonal and be able to play ...fxg6 3. leave their knight on the rim since it's completely out of play 4. possibly, keep our temporary material advantage
I have seen many variations failing about point 3. Whenever fxe5 Nxe5 is played, the Na4 gets free again and might move to b6. In the line I propose the knight can't enjoy its freedom for long: 22...Be4 23.Rhg1 (sacrificing the exchange doesn't give compensation imo, e.g. 23.fxe5 Bxh1 24.Rxh1 Ne5 25.h6 Nxg6 26.hxg7 Kxg7 27.Bh6+ Kg8 28.Bxf8?? Bg5 or 23.Qh2 Bxh1 24.Rxh1 h6) 23...d5 24.fxe5 Nxe5 25.gxh7+ Kxh7 26.h6 g6
click for larger view
27.Nb6 [27.Qd4 Bf6 28.Qxb4? Nd3+] 27...Nf3 28.Qf2 Nxg1 29.Nxc8 Qxc8 30.Rxg1  Tomorrow I'm involved in a match with my chess club team. If I can't post my vote stays with ...Be4. ...Kh8 seems a wasted tempo to me. |
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| Apr-15-07 | | mckmac: An angle for white on the 22...Kh8 23.h6 Bxg6 line.
22... Kh8
23.h6 Bxg6
24.fxe5 Nxe5
25.Nb6 Rc6(only 'safe' square on the [c] file)
26.hxg7+ Kxg7
27.Nd5 
click for larger view
Position after 27.Nd5
Thanks <Marco65> and <Hitman84> for your sensible suggestions.Yesterday,I couldn't 'see the wood for the trees', as the saying goes.Best of luck Marco for the tournament! |
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| Apr-15-07 | | mckmac: <Team> An opinion please--in the 22...Be4 line of <Marco's>,what might follow if white plays 23.Rhf1? Can black play the same line as with Rhg1? And if so,is the position below still a plus for black? 22.Bb3 Be4 23.Rhf1 d5 24.fxe5 (f5 looks playable) Nxe5 25.gxh7+ Kxh7 26.h6 g6 27.Nb6 
click for larger view Position after 27.Nb6 |
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| Apr-15-07 | | Marco65: <mckmac> Incredible I was just analyzing that when I read your post! I don't think things get worse than with 22...Kh8, but 23...d5 can't be played. I'm out for a stroll and don't have a board with me. After 22...Be4 23.Rhf1 Kh8 now is my choice. Possible follow-up 24.fxe5 and now: a) 24...fxg6 25.exd6 Bf6 gives back a pawn, but who is better? b) 24...Nxe5 25.Nb6 they might be better, but not as much as in the diagram you posted in the 22...Kh8 line imo Just hints, as I said no time to analyse seriously.
My point in favour of ...Be4 is just comparative, in the best case it's equivalent to ...Kh8, in the worst case (when White do a pawn storm and capture our g7 or h7 with a pawn and we take back with our king) ...Kh8 is a loss of time. Another good point of ...Be4 is that it makes life difficult for White in doubling on g or h file. Only drawback of ...Be4 is that the bishop doesn't protect Nd7 anymore so fxe5 dxe5 is not an option, but I haven't seen ...dxe5 proposed after any 22...Kh8 variation. I trust the team will make the best decision. |
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| Apr-15-07 | | mckmac: <Team> I have to sign off now(2340hrs)here and am already in trouble:)Not confident enough right now to make a choice,but will be happy to go with you guys on this one. |
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| Apr-15-07 | | hitman84: <Marco>
22. Bb3 Kh8
23. h6 Bxg6
24. hxg7+ Kxg7
25. Rd-g1
click for larger view
Now what ? White is threatening Qh2.
<mckmac>
22. Bb3 Be4
23. Rh-f1 d5
24. fxe5 Nxe5
25. gxh7+ Kxh7
26. h6 g6
27. Nb6 Rc7
28. Nxd5 Nd3+
29. Kb1 Bxd5
30. Qxd3 Bxb3
31. Qxb3 Qe8 =
click for larger viewLooks equal. 22. Bb3 Be4
23. Rh-f1 Kh8
24. gxf7 Qa5
click for larger viewThreat Bc6.
I agree with <Marco> Kh8 looks good instead of d5. My vote <Be4> |
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