|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 79 OF 129 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
May-01-07
 | | TheAlchemist: All that is left is probably <26...Qe8 27.Rxf7 Nxf7 28.Nd5>
click for larger viewor <28.Ba4>
click for larger viewCan we survive? These are probably our best options. |
|
May-01-07
| | TheAlchemist: My point is that both 26...Qe8 and 26...Nf3 give White some chance of going wrong, 26...d5 significantly less. So far, I'm with 26...Qe8, it seems bestter than 26...Nf3. I am against 26...d5, unless someone finds significant improvements, probably as early as 27...? (istead of 27...Nd3, which just seems to go into a lost endgame). |
|
| May-01-07 | | mckmac: <TheAlchemist> Lots to digest there Captain...I might be some time in getting back to you. :-). |
|
| May-01-07 | | Marco65: TheAlchemist's analysis of 26...Nf3 seems correct, all in all we end with an extra pawn for the exchange and the queen still on the board, it's tough but we might be able to draw that. I favour 26...Nf3 for the time being.
26...Qe8 is playable, I considered also 27.Qd4 but it seems to hold after 27...Bf3 (and not 27...Bg2? 28.Bxf7+ Nxf7 29.Rf2 Bh3 [29...Bf6? 30.Rxf6 gxf6 31.Rg1  ] 30.Rg1 with material advantage and strong attack for White) |
|
| May-01-07 | | Marco65: I changed my mind and like 26...Qe8. It seems we lose the exchange (TheAlchemist's second diagram) in a less simplified position than with 26...Nf3, for instance we keep the biahop pair. I tried to make 26...Qb8 work. The idea was to meet 27.Qd4 with 27...d5 but 28.Nxd5 is very good for White, so I don't think it's an option. Good night / morning |
|
| May-01-07 | | Marco65: Last thought of the night: if 26...Qe8 is a good option for us, wouldn't 26...Qf8 be even better? We get rid of that Ba4 tactic... |
|
May-01-07
| | TheAlchemist: How about 26...Qf8 27.Nd7? Does that work (idea being 27...Nxd7 28.Rxf7)? It's really late here, so I might have missed something... |
|
| May-02-07 | | mckmac: <TheAlchemist - Marco65 - chessmoron -Zebra > Check the curves on this one.Following Marco's finding 26...Qf8 26...Qf8 27.Nd5 Nf3 28.Rxf3 (Qxb4!?) Bxf3 29.Rf1 Bxd5! 30.Bxd5 Bf6! 31.Bxf7+ Qxf7 
click for larger view position after 31...Qxf7 |
|
| May-02-07 | | chessmoron: 26...Qe8--Marco65/me
maybe 26...Qe8--TheAlchemist
Not Sure--mckmac/Zebra |
|
| May-02-07 | | Marco65: <TheAlchemist> <How about 26...Qf8 27.Nd7?> Excellent! If we move the queen, NxN wins. Unfortunately. This refutes 26...Qf8 (sorry for your kind effort <mckmac>). If there was a need, this also refutes 26...Qb8. |
|
| May-02-07 | | mckmac: <Team><Marco> : <If we move the queen, NxN wins. Unfortunately. > 26...Qf8 27.Nd7 Nf3! 28. Nxf8 Nxd2 29.Bxd2 d5 30.Nd7 (Rxf7 needs to be looked at here) Bd6!? 31.Bxb4?! ( Rxf7 again) Rxf1 32.Rxf1 Bxb4 |
|
| May-02-07 | | Zebra: <mckmac: 26...Qf8 27.Nd7 Nf3! 28. Nxf8> White can also play e.g. 28.Qe2 here, and then we have to worry about our knight getting pinned. |
|
| May-02-07 | | mckmac: <Zebra> You are right! I haven't had time to look at 28.Qe2 - where do you think it heads? |
|
| May-02-07 | | Marco65: <mckmac><Zebra> I admit I didn't consider 27...Nf3 at all (happy I'm not doing tournaments these days!), but I must be missing something obvious, why not 28.Rxf3? |
|
| May-02-07 | | Zebra: <mckmac> It seems to lead to our knight (or in <Marco>'s variation the bishop) being pinned on the f-file after exchanges on f7. Sorry I haven't really had time to look further than that, but it doesn't look promising. |
|
| May-02-07 | | mckmac: <Marco65> Apologies - 28.Rxf3 stops that line dead.Is there anything we should still be looking at ? My brain is getting fried...But I do not accept that in all these tactics White always prevails.Where is our tactical shot giving us at least equality? White's position is so great they can prove advantage in all lines? I simply find that incredible!! |
|
| May-02-07 | | Marco65: <Zebra> <It seems to lead to our knight (or in <Marco>'s variation the bishop) being pinned> it's even worse, if I'm not missing something my variation leads just to losing our knight and much more, after 26...Qf8 27.Nd7 Nf3 28.Rxf3 White's queen is no more en-prise while ours still is, so we don't have time to recapture the Rf3... |
|
| May-02-07 | | mckmac: <Zebra> Thanks for that..where do you lean at the moment,in terms of what you might vote for? |
|
| May-02-07 | | mckmac: I have to log off now to get some much needed sleep.Will be back on by 1pm EDT. |
|
| May-02-07 | | Marco65: <mckmac> I'm afraid I pushed the team into a line where only if 26...d5 27.Nxd5 Nd3+ worked we could equalize... While I won't stop fustigating myself, I think this kind of things happens also because we are no more a full 10 member team. What this experience taught me is that when it comes to double-check someone else's analysis the number of the players doing that is more important than the level of each single player. Anyway, I agree, I also didn't get the impression that the above mentioned line was so critical before these last days. I was under the impression that, since after they take the exchange on f7 they remain with the threat on c2, we might have many different ways to keep material equality. The reason might be that our pin on f7 is hard to break, while their threat is easy to meet once they move the queen. This is proven by 26...Qe8 27.Qd4 Bf3 28.Rd2 with no need to complicate, or to play Ba4, in order to win the exchange |
|
May-02-07
| | TheAlchemist: <Marco> Don't worry, it's not like it's your fault. After the game is over, we should find possible improvements or alternatives for our side, probably as early as move 15 (or thereabout) and onwards. After that I think we were pretty consistent, at least most of the time. |
|
May-02-07
| | TheAlchemist: Going back to the game, 26...Qe8 still seems best to me. Let's see what it brings, maybe they will go wrong at some point. I'll go and get my do-it-yourself voodoo kit :-) |
|
| May-02-07 | | Marco65: Anyway we are also unlucky. I tried also 26...d5 27.Nxd5 Kf8 and it seems to be ok for us in all variations EXCEPT for 28.Qd4 Bxd5 29.Qxe5! Ok, 26...Qe8, I give up! |
|
| May-02-07 | | Zebra: <mckmac: <Zebra> Thanks for that..where do you lean at the moment,in terms of what you might vote for?> I like Qf8, but am checking kibbitzing to see if it is busted yet; similarly d5. Certainly our problems are not <Marco>'s fault; win or lose, he will get my vote as our man of the match. I think we played some second rate moves in the early middle game (Rb8 comes to mind). As far as Rxf7 goes I also voted for it at the time, underestimating the problems we would find ourselves in. |
|
| May-02-07 | | Zebra: <I think this kind of things happens also because we are no more a full 10 member team.> Right. Unfortunately I have not been able to be active for a while, owing to work commitments. I just have the position set up on a board at home, and tinker around with it before going to bed. The pressure is beginning to ease off now, though. I don't know, though, whether having such a big team was really optimal in the first place. If I do this again (which I hope I will, because I have enjoyed it), I would rather have a small team which plays more or less regularly together. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 79 OF 129 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
