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WCC Editing Project
Member since Jul-19-13 · Last seen Aug-24-24
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   WCC Editing Project has kibitzed 3286 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jun-07-15 Biographer Bistro (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <zanzibar: Since I'm an adviser to editors, rather than an editor, I'm unfamiliar with what exactly editors can do.> I want to bring this post to your attention again: Biographer Bistro (kibitz #10966) It explains what editors can do and what not.
 
   May-31-15 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <chessgames.com> Maybe you overlooked this post Biographer Bistro (kibitz #11028) , since the Bistro has become rather fast-paced. An answer would be interesting to several people.
 
   May-29-15 WCC Editing Project chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Chessical> Thank you very much for your contribution(s)! We hope that you will support us in the future, also. For sure, you have helped us quite a lot already. The draft in question is already finished and was send away, though. It is still a valuable source and
 
   Apr-01-15 Moscow (1925) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Capablanca> on his experience at <Moscow 1925>: <"Although very philosophical, very observant and completely dispassionate in my judgment about everything concerning chess and its great exponents, I was nonetheless <<<unable to ...
 
   Mar-08-15 Tabanus chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: Ribli - Torre Candidates Quarterfinal (1983) Audiovisual aid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8G...
 
   Mar-08-15 Alekhine - Bogoljubov World Championship Match (1929) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <beatgiant> In case you want to read further on this topic, I have prepared a sourced timeline that summarizes the <Alekhine-Capablanca> rematch negotiations from 26 Feb 1929 - March 1935: Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE
 
   Jan-29-15 suenteus po 147 chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <One Third of the original "Big Three"> I beg your pardon! I'm on vacation in Canada, and I just now saw your post in the WCC forum. By "we" I meant the cg.com biographers, not the WCC project. All of the research compiled for additions to your intro was done by ...
 
   Nov-23-14 R Fuchs vs Tal, 1969 (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <MC Scarlett> If so, very very quietly...
 
   Nov-19-14 Alexander Alekhine (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> Thanks for the correction! That sum makes more sense now in conjunction with the report on the organizers' losses. Good heavens- they can't have made much on ticket sales.
 
   Nov-17-14 E Walther vs Tal, 1966
 
WCC Editing Project: Queen trap Trick or Treat- this game was played on Halloween, 1966.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

WCC Editing Project

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 107 OF 127 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-05-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <<A leading contemporaneous chess periodical criticized the quality of the games, with Nardus' sponsorship being the only thing "grandmasterly" about the contest.<12>> >

"with" doesn't work. It really needs an -ing word to begin the clause, something like "affirming", "claiming", etc. At first glance, I sort of like the subtle/sassy use of the word "claiming" which seems to work well with the sarcastic usage of "grandmasterly". So,

"A leading contemporaneous chess periodical criticized the quality of the games, claiming that Nardus' sponsorship was the only thing "grandmasterly" about the contest."

May-05-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: "The match began at 4 pm with Lasker having the first move.<13> He won a miniature, after Janowski blundered a piece on move 19."

Terrific.

May-05-14  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

<OCF>

This suggestion

"A leading contemporaneous chess periodical criticized the quality of the games, claiming that Nardus' sponsorship was the only thing "grandmasterly" about the contest.<12>"

and shall be put into the draft.

<OCF: Terrific.>

What do you mean? The urban dictionary gives

1) <used as a way to describe something delightful. Normally said by annoying girls who think they run it.>

2) <A combination of the words "terrible" and "horrific" in order to sound like you're complimenting a person when really, you think they should go [...].>

3) <To instill with terror.>

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...

May-05-14  Boomie: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

<Karpova>

I'm sure that <Ohio> meant the "excellent" meaning of "terrific".

However, the comma is wrong here:

<He won a miniature, after Janowski blundered a piece on move 19.>

"He won a miniature after Janowski blundered a piece on move 19."

May-05-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I meant "excellent", yes. I see no problem with the comma. I think it works okay without, although I'd prefer "when" instead of "after" in a sentence without a comma.
May-05-14  Boomie: <Ohio: I see no problem with the comma.>

Try as I might, I can't hear a pause there. The two parts of the sentence are intimately connected.

May-05-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: No commament.
May-06-14  Boomie: <WCC Editing Project: No commament.>

Cheese it! It's da Bishop!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqoE...

May-06-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: heh

Seriously, I see no need for a comma in this sentence:

<He won a miniature after Janowski blundered a piece on move 16>

May-06-14  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

Please replace

-

Lasker got the first move in game 1, which started at 4 pm.<13> The match began with Lasker winning a miniature, after Janowski blundered a piece on move 19.

-

with

-

The match began at 4 pm with Lasker having the first move.<13> He won a miniature when Janowski blundered a piece on move 19.

-

I want to add that the game ended after 22 moves, not 19. Does that make a difference regarding <when> or <after>?

May-06-14  Boomie: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

<He won a miniature when Janowski blundered a piece on move 19.>

<Karpova: I want to add that the game ended after 22 moves, not 19.>

The total number of moves seems more important than the move the blunder occurred.

"He won a 22 move miniature when Janowski blundered a piece on move 19."

Or maybe remove the blunder move.

"He won a 22 move miniature when Janowski blundered a piece."

May-06-14  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

In this case, make it

-

The match began at 4 pm with Lasker having the first move.<13> He won a 22 move miniature when Janowski blundered a piece on move 19.

-

In my opinion, the information that a piece was blundered on move 19 is more important as it tells us more about the game. A 22 move miniature can have many reasons, e. g. clever opening preparation.

May-06-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I slightly prefer "He won a 22 move miniature when Janowski blundered a piece on the 19th move."
May-06-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <Financed by his wealthy patron Leo Nardus, in May 1909 Janowski played an exhibition match against Lasker in Paris, which ended drawn (+2 -2 =0). >

Tossing out for consideration by the Soviet the thought that the sentence is a bit run onny, and might be better written if it started with "In May 1939".

<They played a second exhibition match<7> in Paris from October to November, which saw Lasker emerge as the clear winner (+7 -1 =2).<8> Shortly afterwards, on 12 Nov 1909, both masters signed an agreement for a title match in autumn 1910, predicated on Lasker not losing his title to Carl Schlechter .<9>>

Again for consideration, are the words "Shortly afterwards" redundant?

May-06-14  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

Effect these changes:

The match began at 4 pm with Lasker having the first move.<13> He won a 22 move miniature when Janowski blundered a piece on the 19th move.

instead of

"Lasker got the first move in game 1, which started at 4 pm.<13> The match began with Lasker winning a miniature, after Janowski blundered a piece on move 19."

---

In May 1909, financed by his wealthy patron Leo Nardus, Janowski played an exhibition match against Lasker in Paris, which ended drawn (+2 -2 =0).

instead of

"Financed by his wealthy patron Leo Nardus, in May 1909 Janowski played an exhibition match against Lasker in Paris, which ended drawn (+2 -2 =0)."

---

<Again for consideration, are the words "Shortly afterwards" redundant?>

I think it's good to keep it as it provides a closer connection between the 1909 match and the 1910 WC match.

May-06-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

Both of your requested changes are now in the mirror:

#######################

The match began at 4 pm with Lasker having the first move.<13> He won a 22 move miniature when Janowski blundered a piece on the 19th move.

In May 1909, financed by his wealthy patron Leo Nardus, Janowski played an exhibition match against Lasker in Paris, which ended drawn (+2 -2 =0)

May-07-14  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

"Lasker got the first move in game 1, which started at 4 pm.<13> The match began at 4 pm with Lasker having the first move.<13> He won a 22 move miniature when Janowski blundered a piece on the 19th move."

should look like this:

The match began at 4 pm with Lasker having the first move.<13> He won a 22 move miniature when Janowski blundered a piece on the 19th move.

May-07-14  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

The part about Janowski's preparation for the Lasker match based on source <2>, was taken over by the WSZ from the 'Algemeen Handelsblad'.

I found the original:

http://kranten.delpher.nl/nl/view/i...

'Algemeen Handelsblad', 3 June 1910, p. 9

the decisive paragraph is the in the 2nd column, right above the game score of the 2nd game.

If we implement it, this would be the new source <10> (the WSZ article had been used at the beginning for the characterization of Janowski as a strong combinational player so it has to stay and can't be simply replaced), so in this paragraph

"Lasker defended his crown in the drawn Lasker - Schlechter World Championship Match (1910) in January and February, and Janowski got his shot at the title in late 1910. Janowski was eager to take revenge and claimed to have studied hundreds of games by Lasker.<2> He had prepared for the match for several weeks in Ostend.<10> The challenger considered Lasker's play to be weak, but the world champion's opponents lost because they tried to cash in on the victory prematurely. Janowski wanted to demonstrate to the world that "Lasker's game was not chess, but dominoes."<2> During their title match, Lasker characterized Janowski in the following way: "Independently he searches for the beautiful, ingenious, deep and hidden. Sadly, he goes too far therein. He pays not the slightest attention to ordinariness. In fact, this gives his play a special appeal, at the same time it is also his weak spot."<11>"

source <2> would become the new source <10> (i. e. the Algemeen Handelsblad):

"Lasker defended his crown in the drawn Lasker - Schlechter World Championship Match (1910) in January and February, and Janowski got his shot at the title in late 1910. Janowski was eager to take revenge and claimed to have studied hundreds of games by Lasker.<10> He had prepared for the match for several weeks in Ostend.<11> The challenger considered Lasker's play to be weak, but the world champion's opponents lost because they tried to cash in on the victory prematurely. Janowski wanted to demonstrate to the world that "Lasker's game was not chess, but dominoes."<10> During their title match, Lasker characterized Janowski in the following way: "Independently he searches for the beautiful, ingenious, deep and hidden. Sadly, he goes too far therein. He pays not the slightest attention to ordinariness. In fact, this gives his play a special appeal, at the same time it is also his weak spot."<12>"

and all the subsequent footnotes would have to be changed accordingly.

May-07-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <They played a second exhibition match<7> in Paris from October to November, which saw Lasker emerge as the clear winner (+7 -1 =2).<8> Shortly afterwards, on 12 Nov 1909, both masters signed an agreement for a title match in autumn 1910, predicated on Lasker not losing his title to Carl Schlechter .<9>>

I've been thinking about this and feel pretty strongly "Shortly afterwards" is extraneous. They played a match that ended in November. Is it really necessary to point out that it was "shortly afterwards", only 12 days into November that they signed off on the agreement? What if it was November 11th? 10th? 6th? The day after the match ended?

May-07-14  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

This would at least end the <onward/s> and <afterward/s> controversy. So I will take up <Boomie>'s earlier suggestion.

Following changes:

---

change

"From the end of the 19th century onwards, he was a regular participant in strong international tournaments.<1>"

into

From the end of the 19th century, he was a regular participant in strong international tournaments.<1>

---

change

"Shortly afterwards, on 12 Nov 1909, both masters signed an agreement for a title match in autumn 1910, predicated on Lasker not losing his title to Carl Schlechter .<9>"

into

On 12 Nov 1909, both masters signed an agreement for a title match in autumn 1910, predicated on Lasker not losing his title to Carl Schlechter .<9>

May-07-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

I made all the changes you asked for.

I think we should definitely use your new source, but for now I put your entire post right underneath the current draft.

I want to be sure to have full concentration when changing note numbers, so I won't do that until the weekend. Also just in case you find something else you might want to add or rearrange in the sources.

May-07-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <From the end of the 19th century, he was a regular participant in strong international tournaments.>

Count me as one who doesn't care for that. I think the "From" demands some sort of "on" or "onward" (or "to" some other time period)to close the thought. I know those can be a bit awkward, so another way to approach it would be something like "Throughout the end of the 19th century" or "During the late 1800's".

May-07-14  Colonel Mortimer: "From the late 19th century onwards, he was.."

Simple.

May-08-14  Karpova: <Jess>

That's fine with me.

On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910

I also thought that something like <onwards> was necessary, that's why I had it in there in the first place.

The suggestions with <throughout> and <during> do not fit exactly, as he went on to be invited to strong international tournaments well into the 20th century.

So the most simple is to change it back to how it was before:

please change

"From the end of the 19th century, he was a regular participant in strong international tournaments.<1>"

to

From the end of the 19th century onward, he was a regular participant in strong international tournaments.<1>

May-08-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> ok I put in your new selection.

I think it's fine now. I thought it was fine before too, and before that as well.

It was always a style choice, so the draft writer has final say.

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