< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 121 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jun-27-14 | | Karpova: Yes, HathiTrust is a very valuable resource. Not all of the books offered by them are available in all countries, though. I don't see a problem with selling a book that's in the public domain. They printed it, after all. Another example are the 21st century versions of old tournament books by Russell Enterprises. |
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Jun-27-14 | | crawfb5: The section in the intro on the <Brooklyn Daily Eagle> should be updated to reflect the new link: http://bklyn.newspapers.com/
Also, this now has the full run of the BDE, so it's no longer necessary to use the Fulton site. |
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Jun-27-14
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<Big> Excellent. As you know, I had noticed your prize-winning letter on this subject to <Edward Winter>: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/.... But I hadn't thought of updating the resource section of our WCC profile. I have done so. |
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Jun-30-14 | | Karpova: <But before this reaches our readers a challenge will have been received by Mr. Zukertort from Mr. Steinitz for a match at chess for a stake of three hundred pounds sterling a side. Mr. Steinitz, for reasons which he will himself express in his correspondence in this journal, declines to accept the result of the late tournament, in which he receives the second prize, as a true test of the relative chess powers of himself and Mr. Zukertort. This is but natural, and Zukertort could not expect that his title to the championship should remain unchallenged for an instant after the close of the contest.> New York Turf, Field and Farm, 1883.07.06, http://www.chessarch.com/excavation... ---
<The indications are that Mr. Z. is the strongest living player.> [...] <It is reported that Steinitz has challenged Zukertort to play a match of seven games for $2,000.> Cincinnati Commercial, 1883.07.07, http://www.chessarch.com/excavation... ---
<Now that the London affairs is well over attention is drawn to the probable match between Zukertort and Steinitz. Rumor has it that the Hungarian has actually challenged "the Doctor" to a contest of seven games for a stake of $2,000. As well as we can learn, however, there is nothing definite.> (the "Hungarian" is probably Steinitz and the "Doctor" Zukertort) [...] <The victor must certainly be placed high up in the rank of first-class players, while the question naturally suggests itself to one's mind, "Is Steinitz falling off as a player?" - 'Leeds Mercury'.> (note that the victor is Chigorin, who beat Steinitz in both encounters). Charleston Sunday News, 1883.07.08, http://www.chessarch.com/excavation... ---
<Zukertort "is now the acknowledged world champion chessplayer, and should Steinitz challenge him to play a match he would probably not refuse without giving a better excuse than that Steinitz gave Mason for the reason it is impossible to conceive of a poorer one." - Baltimore Sunday News.> Newark Sunday Call, 1883.07.08, http://www.chessarch.com/excavation... ---
<MR. STEINITZ'S CHALLENGE.
Under date of June 27, Mr. Steinitz writes to us as follows: "Mr. R. Steel, of Calcutta, has sent the following letter to Mr. J. I. Minchin, the Honorable Secretary of the St. George's Chess Club, who, on former occasions, has acted as Mr. Zukertort's second: Oriental Club, June 24, 1883.
"Dear Sir: Referring to our recent conversation on the subject of a match between Messrs. Steinitz and Zukertort, I now have the pleasure to inform you that Mr. Steinitz has authorized me to propose such a match. I trust you will use your influence to promote a contest which will be of extreme interest to the public, and will form a fitting sequel to the late successful tournament.> [...] Then follow Steinitz suggested conditions, i. e. victor is the winner of either the first eight or ten games, 15 moves per hour, etc.. New York Turf, Field and Farm, 1883.07.13, http://www.chessarch.com/excavation... |
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Jun-30-14
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<Karpova> Outstanding, and added to mirror: Game Collection: WCC : Steinitz-Zukertort 1886 |
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Jul-02-14 | | Karpova: The new Intro for Lasker - Janowski World Championship Match (1910) is up. We have 4 days for errata checking and the findings shall e send to <Jess> per e-mail. |
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Jul-15-14 | | Paint My Dragon: <WCCEP> I have my serious head on - no repeat of the disruption we caused last time we spoke here. Yes, flattered to be asked and quite happy to lend a hand wherever I can be useful. I have got some potentially time consuming home improvements on the horizon though, so time could be very limited until winter, when my photography would also quieten down a fair bit. I'll just have to see how that all plays out - it may not sit well with any deadlines if you have them; that would be my only concern. It may also mean that I will have to withdraw from the bistro, or risk getting nothing done. I have very little experience with regard to online newspapers, but can probably pick this up as I go along - you seem to have a few useful links at the top of the page. I can hopefully contribute some material from books and magazines, although my reading matter has many blind spots. So broadly speaking, you would like me to look at a specific event, or choose from a range of events? With a view to providing a draft 'introduction' to be emailed to and finalised by yourself? Is that what you had in mind? |
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Jul-15-14
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<Paint My Dragon>
No deadlines, so please don't worry about that.
You can choose to write an intro to any of the events, except the "draft games collections" listed in our profile that have someone's name next to them. So if you click on
##################
<JFQ>
Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Smyslov 1954 ################
You can see that I've been researching this event, and I'll be writing an intro draft for it. This is to avoid duplicating work. You'll notice that not all of the <WCC Intros> are listed in our profile yet either. So you could choose any event from this list: History of the World Chess Championship, but be sure to check my profile to make sure somebody else isn't already working on it. If there's no name on a draft in our profile, then there's nobody working on that event. If you choose an event, just post your intention here in the forum, and then I'll make a "draft games collection" for you with your name on it, and put it in the profile. I have a big chess history library, and so do others- so feel free to ask for help either here or in the <Bistro>. We'll supply any material you ask for, if we have it, by posting it here in the forum. Such help could include me or a colleague actually typing out passages of any length in here that you might want, if we have the source material. When you have finished a draft, just email it to me, and then I'll put it in the profile: ##################
<Paint My Dragon>
WCC Games collection Flintstone-Rubble 4BC
###################
This makes it easier for me to edit the final product. As for the actual editing process, we'll do that by email and I'll keep you closely in the loop as an editing participant. As the draft writer, you'd have final say on matters of style editing. When you're happy with your draft, and I'm happy with your draft, we send it to the webmaster and he makes it the official <WCC Intro>> Here's an example of a "before and after":
Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 becomes
Botvinnik - Bronstein World Championship Match (1951) |
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Jul-15-14
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<Paint by Dragons>
This is the basic plan that <Karpova> and I have been following to structure our drafts, but it's just a general guideline: <1. How did the Match come about?2. What were the conditions for the Match? The stakes, the number of games, the rules, and this could also include information about the backers, the venue, the referees, and so on. 3. What happened at the Match?> |
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Jul-15-14 | | Paint My Dragon: <WCC> That's what I call an open brief. However, I may need to seek some more guidance once I've had a quick look through some of your exemplar drafts. A couple of questions that spring to mind immediately: It seems I can only choose one of the Steinitz-Chigorin Matches, or something after 1972? Is that your understanding too? Can you explain what you mean by 'matters of style editing'? I'm definitely old school and would always write 'shared first place', rather than 'shared 1st'. Is that going to annoy anyone too much? I can see that I'm probably in the minority. |
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Jul-15-14
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<Prince of Tides>:
#################
<It seems I can only choose one of the Steinitz-Chigorin Matches, or something after 1972? Is that your understanding too?> Yes, but you could also write the overall introduction as well: History of the World Chess Championship. There is a WCC Draft for that here- Game Collection: WCC: OVERALL INTRODUCTION- featuring some editing ideas from <OhioChessFan>, <Boomie> and <JFQ>, but if you wanted to do this intro you could take or leave any of those suggestions as you wish. Once your name goes on the edit draft you become "Edit King" for that draft. You'd then be like "Danny the Tunnel King" in <The Great Escape>. ########################
<Can you explain what you mean by 'matters of style editing'? I'm definitely old school and would always write 'shared first place', rather than 'shared 1st'. Is that going to annoy anyone too much? I can see that I'm probably in the minority> I also like the typing out of numbers, a la <Golombek> and other old schoolers. <TheFocus> and <Annie K.> have also mentioned that they prefer this style, so you're not alone on this. That said, I did once convert one of the draft mirrors to "full Golombek" by spelling out every single number, and it didn't look right for the the style of a brief intro here at <cg.com>. <Karpova> may have more to say about that when she returns from hiatus, since to my knowledge she's the only other person who ever saw my "full Golombek" numberless draft. I do try to use letters for numbers when I think I can get away with it. It doesn't look good, however, when your'e describing the conditions of an event that has a lot of numbers in it- for example, this here wouldn't look right to me if you wrote out all the numbers: <The winner would be the first to score 12 1/2 points from a maximum of 24 games, with the champion enjoying draw odds. The time control was 40 moves in 2 1/2 hours, and 16 moves an hour thereafter, with an adjournment to the following day after five hours of play.<13,14> According to FIDE rules, the winner would receive $5,000 and the loser $3,000,<13>> In the example you give, I myself would write "shared first" rather than "shared first place," depending on the precise context of the sentence. But if you wanted to write "shared first place" in your draft I wouldn't edit it out. #######################
I should make a few further clarifications:
1. The first (1st- heh) priority is to get quality drafts researched and written. That is first and all else is subservient to that initial task. 2. I myself am not going to edit any writer's style choices out. I may try to convince a writer to alter a style choice, but if push comes to shove the writer will have her way. 3. Webmaster <Daniel Freeman> has the "one true final edit" on all current and future drafts in his <WCC> series. I should emphasize that Daniel is no stranger to the editing process, and that he is very reasonable about accommodating the editing ideas of others. He's approachable and always ready for a discussion on just about anything. Sometimes he puts his foot down on a style issue, as he did on the question of how to write out the dates in the body of the intros, but I don't have a problem with that. Daniel does in fact do some edits on each draft we promote, but usually they are so seamless and natural that I don't even notice them unless he actually mentions to me what he did. He's like <Tabanus> that way. <Tab> edited some of the intros I wrote for <tournament index> events, and to this day I still can't figure out what he changed. Getting back to your previous point, the final-final-final decision on which numbers to write as numbers and which to spell out with letters will rest with <Daniel>. |
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Jul-15-14
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Oh and if you had your heart set on writing a <Spassky-Fischer 1972> draft go ahead on that, since I have done almost no research on it yet. |
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Jul-16-14 | | Paint My Dragon: <WCC> Thanks.
Fischer-Spassky - now that would be a poison chalice ... no-one here would have any opinion or spin they'd like to see added to that one I'm sure! No, but seriously, the expectation would be for a lot of US newspaper commentary, rather than the Hartston/Gligoric/Wade stuff that I would be reaching for. Having a lot of trouble moving around cg.com today, so I will investigate some more tomorrow. From what I've seen so far, the intros all look very short, punchy, compact. You'd say about one side of A4, right? This appears to leave no space for wordiness, so maybe the 'jumble of numbers' approach is seen as necessary. Ouch! It will hurt, if that's the case. Has Daniel not looked at any so far? A Promoted Draft is just one that's been sent to him? Not a vetted version? |
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Jul-16-14
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<Dragon>
The intros we write shouldn't be slanted one way or the other in terms of source material, as in "American vs British" sources. We should try to look at all the sources we can find, and not be afraid to ask others to fill holes in our own research. Our intros should be up to academic standard for history writing, similar to the standard featured in <Tournament Index Promotions> written by <Tabanus> and <Chessical>, for example. We should avoid any editorialization and any supposition unsupported by facts in evidence. So we avoid the egregious assumptions in such chatty bios as Munninghoff's biography of <Euwe>, where he constantly peppers his text with unsupported speculations such as "Euwe had to have been feeling X," or worse. Promoted drafts have been vetted by <Daniel> and they are now the official <WCC intro pages>. Here are the promoted drafts we have done so far:
Steinitz - Gunsberg World Championship Match (1890)
Lasker - Janowski World Championship Match (1910)
Lasker - Capablanca World Championship Match (1921)
FIDE World Championship Tournament (1948)
Botvinnik - Bronstein World Championship Match (1951)
All of the rest of the still existing old <WCC intros> will be replaced by new drafts that are researched and written to academic standard. |
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Jul-16-14
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<Paint by Dragon set> Please don't worry too much about the "numbers" vs. Golombekized spelled out numbers for the moment. At the end of the day <Daniel> can, might, will decide on which numbers he'd prefer to have spelled out and which he'd prefer not to have spelled out, overall across his whole field of WCC intros. Right now we want arses on pews.
By that, I mean we want drafts on paper.
First things 1st, and issues such as the <numbers> can be sorted out later. I just want to get the work done.
If there are no new drafts, we won't need to worry about the numbers, because there won't be any numbers in the 1st (first) place. There'll be nothing but blank sheets of A-4 (four). |
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Jul-16-14 | | Paint My Dragon: <WCC> Fear not - I'm not hung up on the numbers thing. These are not player biographies, so I'd not expect the '1st place' issue to crop up much, if at all ... although I did see '2/3 of the prize fund' written somewhere, which was a little bit urggh. And yes, of course I understand about a balanced range of sources, but I would expect that Bobby's ascent attracted many column inches in the US and I just don't think I'd do it justice with a library slanted towards European publications. I'm loathe to say it, but nothing particularly grabs me. Like you, my interests lie more in the Botvinnik era of chess. Hmmm, cutting through the largely apocryphal tales of gruff, grunty old men with stern faces ... or wading through dark, murky adventures with parapsychologists, yoghurt pots and religious sects. What to choose? I can't decide. Would your preference be to close up the gaps or make a first expedition into Karpov and Kasparov territory? |
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Jul-16-14
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<The Painted Bird>
Well it's up to you of course, but starting <Karpov v Kasparov> sounds excellent to me. I have a lot of chess e-books, any of which I'm willing to lend you, if you don't already have them. Lending is easily done via what the heck is the name of the transfer site I use... <Media Fire> that's it. When you decide which event you want to start, just let me know here in the forum and I will put your name on that draft up in the <WCC Profile>. |
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Jul-16-14
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<Karpova>
No rush on this, but when you get back-
Regarding this saga here: Akiba Rubinstein Can you post page numbers for the <NRC> sources? <Alekhine's false assertion: 'NRC' of January 14, 1922Repudiation and rectification: 'NRC' of January 16, 1922> |
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Jul-16-14
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<Karpova>
Ok I see- I think. The list of sources are all from one other source? <The source is Toni Preziuso on pages 36-38 of Karl 3/2013.> So I could write-
<1> "Nieuwe Rotterdamsche Courrant" (Jan 14, 1922). In Toni Preziuso, "Karl" (March 2013), pp.36-38 |
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Jul-16-14
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<Colleagues>
If anyone can supply more detail on how, exactly, <Alekhine> managed to get his 1927 match with <Capablanca> funded, please post information and source here? With respect to this passage from Game Collection: WCC: Capablanca-Alekhine 1927 <But Alekhine never wavered from his quest. After finishing 3rd to Lasker and Capablanca at New York (1924), he reported a momentous discovery while analyzing this game-Capablanca vs Alekhine, 1924. "I had finally detected a slight weakness in my future opponent: increasing uncertainty when confronted with stubborn resistance!"<7>> |
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Jul-16-14
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Good grief sorry, I didn't put in the end part:
<But Alekhine never wavered from his quest. After finishing 3rd to Lasker and Capablanca at New York (1924), he reported a momentous discovery while analyzing this game-Capablanca vs Alekhine, 1924- "I had finally detected a slight weakness in my future opponent: increasing uncertainty when confronted with stubborn resistance!"<7><<<It would be three more years until Alekhine raised the required purse from the Argentine Chess Federation, and a match date was set for September 1927 in Buenos Aires.>>><8>> |
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Jul-16-14 | | Paint My Dragon: <WCC> Okay, put me down for the first Karpov-Kasparov encounter. As long as I don't have to look at the games, which I vaguely remember were quite tedious! <re:Alekhine-Capa 1927> A group of businessmen led by the President of Argentina funded the match, not because they were supporters of Alekhine (whose own ingratiating himself to the rich and influential in Europe had failed) but because "they simply felt it was time to give Capablanca, hero of Latin America, a chance to demonstrate his superiority again somewhere close to home soil." - William Hartston, The Guinness Book Of Chess Grandmasters (1996), p.82. |
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Jul-16-14
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<My Dragon>
Excellent, thank you very much!
That's a big help on both fronts. Welcome to the writing staff, sir. |
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Jul-16-14
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<Dragon>
Ok here it is: Game Collection: WCC: Karpov-Kasparov 1984-85. When you finish a draft, just email it to me and I'll copy and past it onto your draft page. Please feel free to request help on any kind of source you might want that we might have- if we can get it we will post the information in the <WCC Forum> and I'll copy and paste it onto your draft page as well. If you ask for help in the <Bistro>, please be sure to ask folks to post their answer here in the <WCC Forum>. But if they don't, we don't need to worry about that. I will copy and paste the answer in here if they forget to put it here. Have fun! I will email you after work today. |
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Jul-17-14
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<Paint my Dragons>
Apologies for delayed email- I've been combing through my chess "e-library" and that's taken more time than I thought it might, since it's an enormous collection. Sadly, I have yet to find anything directly relevant to Game Collection: WCC: Karpov-Kasparov 1984-85, though I do have some fine books on later <Kasparov-Karpov> events. At any rate, I will email you within the next 12 hours or so to touch base and compare notes. Back later,
Jess |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 121 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
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