< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 44 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Oct-13-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Schlechter 1910 <Yes, the sentence <We assume that a +1 score was sufficient to win the match.> should be put after <[...] and if necessary the referee would decide the title." (7)>> This has been done.
Nice work you two. |
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Oct-13-13
 | | OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910 <Enthusiastic about the outcome of the match, Nardus proposed a match for the world championship and while Lasker had no objection in principle, he had to leave France.> 4 clauses is a bit much for one sentence. Maybe "Enthusiastic about the outcome of the match, Nardus proposed a match for the world championship. While Lasker had no objection in principle (deserves a footnote as verification), he had to leave France." <Despite of the last setback, Janowski got his shot at the title in late 1910> Dele "of". |
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Oct-13-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910 <<Despite of the last setback, Janowski got his shot at the title in late 1910>Dele "of".>
done.
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<<Enthusiastic about the outcome of the match, Nardus proposed a match for the world championship and while Lasker had no objection in principle, he had to leave France.>4 clauses is a bit much for one sentence. Maybe "Enthusiastic about the outcome of the match, Nardus proposed a match for the world championship. While Lasker had no objection in principle (deserves a footnote as verification), he had to leave France."> Agree, we'll wait on <Karpova> for this one. Thanks! |
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Oct-14-13 | | Karpova: <Jess> & <OCF> I agree with the suggestion <Enthusiastic about the outcome of the match, Nardus proposed a match for the world championship. While Lasker had no objection in principle, he had to leave France.> Footnote 4 is the source for all of this. |
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Oct-14-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910 It is done! |
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Oct-15-13
 | | OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Anand-Topalov FIDE Championship 2010 <The match was grueling and dynamic, with five decisive games,> Would decisive games indicate dynamic? Yes. Grueling? Not really. But the fact the shortest draw was 44 moves and the games averaged over 50 moves each would indicate grueling. < and some unexpected surprises in the openings. > This should be specified. There seems to be space to do so. As it is, Vishy played 2 Grunfelds and 3 Slavs before the QGD in the last game. Topa played 3 Catalans in a row. |
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Oct-16-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>
Game Collection: WCC: Anand-Topalov FIDE Championship 2010 Thank you, and logged again.
These will be useful points when we start editing this one. It might prove difficult to find sources that aren't <chessbase> to get the facts straight. If you can dig any good sources up for this one it would be a boon to our project. |
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Oct-17-13
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: From Game Collection: WCC: Capablanca-Alekhine 1927: <1 "Shakhmatny v. SSSR” No.3 March 1956, pp.87-89. Retrieved from Batgirl article at http://www.chess.com/blog/batgirl/e...> <SBC> does indeed spell the magazine's name thus, but it's a mistake. It should be <Shakhmaty v SSSR> (Шахматы в СССР) - there's no N in "shakhmaty", and "v" is a complete word, not short for anything. (Spelling "shakhmaty" as "shakhmatny" is an understandable mistake - one that also occurs in the CG biography of Yuri Averbakh - as "shakhmatny" does actually appear in the names of many Russian-language chess magazines. For instance, the direct predecessor of <Shakhmaty v SSSR> was called Shakhmatny Listok, with an entirely correct N.) |
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Oct-17-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Switch>
What an extraordinary coincidence. I had just come to Cg.com this second to show you another game I played. At any rate, thank you very much for such a detailed and informative correction. I have fixed it now. Game Collection: WCC: Capablanca-Alekhine 1927 |
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Oct-17-13 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Smyslov 1957 Vasily Smyslov: <The game was adjourned, and the following morning Goldberg, Botvinnik's second, sent me an offer of a draw.>* Source: Page 173 of Vasily Smyslov, 'Endgame Virtuoso', Everyman Chess, 1997 (reprinted 2003). *On move 41.Ne1 (41...Kh6 was the sealed move), annotating Botvinnik vs Smyslov, 1957 |
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Oct-17-13
 | | OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890 <Colonel G. F. Betts opened the match on December 9, 1890 in the Manhattan Chess Club.> This needs some clarification. He introduced it, he made the ceremonial first move, he announced the match was starting on the 9th, or it was a pregame ceremony and the match started on the 10th, etc. |
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Oct-17-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Smyslov 1957 <Vasily Smyslov: <The game was adjourned, and the following morning Goldberg, Botvinnik's second, sent me an offer of a draw.>*Source: Page 173 of Vasily Smyslov, 'Endgame Virtuoso', Everyman Chess, 1997 (reprinted 2003).> Outstanding find, thank you!
Now we have two eye witness accounts corroborating the fact that <Botvinnik> had a second at this match, contrary to what <Graeme Cree> says on his utterly unreliable "chess history" web pages. In fact, <Botvinnik> had two (2) seconds. It's astounding just how wrong Graeme Cree can be. He perpetuates false legends at every opportunity. Graeme Cree is a DISGRACE to chess history writing. He should delete all of his websites and quietly retire. ############
From eye witness <Harry Golombek>, on the 1957 WCC Match: <<<<Seconds>>> Averbakh and Grigory Abramovich Goldberg (for Botvinnik) Bondarevsky and Makogonov (which Makogonov?) (for Smyslov) One second was allowed to help analyze adjourned games. In this case, it was Averbakh and Makogonov who had the rights to these particular duties.> -Harry Golombek
"The World Chess Championships of 1957 and 1958"
(Harding Simpole 2002 -original copyright Golombek 1957),
p. 8 |
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Oct-17-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890 <<Colonel G. F. Betts opened the match on December 9, 1890 in the Manhattan Chess Club.>This needs some clarification. He introduced it, he made the ceremonial first move, he announced the match was starting on the 9th, or it was a pregame ceremony and the match started on the 10th, etc.> I have to agree with the learned member for <Ohio> on this- if the further information can be found, I think we should use it. If no further information can be found, I think we should keep what you have there. We can definitely report what we find, even if we can't find any further information on it. |
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Oct-18-13 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890 <Colonel G. F. Betts opened the match on December 9, 1890 in the Manhattan Chess Club.19> More on that:
New-York Daily Tribune, 1890.12.10: <The proceedings were opened by Colonel G. F. Betts, who first of all welcomed the competing masters to the club. After a few further appropriate remarks he introduced the players to the members of the club present in these words: “I have the pleasure, gentlemen, to introduce to you Mr. Gunsberg and Mr. Steinitz, and may the best man win.”> (source 19) The World, New York, 1890.12.10: < There were not many strong players in New York who did not put in an appearance to support Col. Betts, the Vice-President of the prosperous chess club, in inaugurating the great contest between Steinitz and Gunsberg. Proceedings commenced with the formal signing of the agreement and articles of play by the players and by Dr. Murtz [sic] on behalf of the Manhattan Chess Club. The Vice-President then addressed a few kindly words of encouragement to both players, dwelling on the great merit and well-known prowess of Mr. Steinitz, whom they had known for years past as an American citizen. The Colonels polite allusion to Mr. Gunsberg as an always welcome visitor from a distant shore, was approvingly received by his hearers.> From http://www.chessarch.com/archive/18... What would be most appropriate? Perhaps <Colonel G. F. Betts opened the proceedings of the match and introduced the players on December 9, 1890 in the Manhattan Chess Club.19> ? (on that very day, the first game was played) |
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Oct-18-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
I think what you wrote is perfect:
<Colonel G. F. Betts opened the proceedings of the match and introduced the players on December 9, 1890 in the Manhattan Chess Club.19> In an article of such a short length, I don't think this part is necessary- (on that very day, the first game was played). Final decision is up to you. |
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Oct-18-13 | | Karpova: <Jess>
Sorry, this was a bit disambiguous: I didn't mean to include <(on that very day, the first game was played)> in the draft, but just to answer <OCF>'s suggestion <or it was a pregame ceremony and the match started on the 10th, etc.> to indicate that it was indeed prior to the game played the same day. So <Colonel G. F. Betts opened the proceedings of the match and introduced the players on December 9, 1890 in the Manhattan Chess Club.19> is what I am proposing. |
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Oct-18-13
 | | OhioChessFan: Could I suggest <Colonel G. F. Betts, Vice President of the Manhattan Chess Club, opened the proceedings of the match and introduced the players on December 9, 1890.> |
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Oct-18-13 | | Karpova: <OCF>
Your suggestion looks fine, but an important difference between a) <Colonel G. F. Betts opened the proceedings of the match and introduced the players on December 9, 1890 in the Manhattan Chess Club.19> and
b) <Colonel G. F. Betts, Vice President of the Manhattan Chess Club, opened the proceedings of the match and introduced the players on December 9, 1890.> in my opinion is that in (a) the venue of the match is mentioned, which is not the case in (b) where Betts is further characterized. But I think that it's more important for the reader to know where the match was played while Betts can be looked up elsewhere if necessary. Although the Manhattan Chess Club is already mentioned in connection with the travel expenses, it should be explicitly mentioned to have been the playing venue. So in case of (b), it should be inserted somewhere else. But the word count is possibly already borderline. But it's open for discussion, for sure. |
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Oct-18-13
 | | OhioChessFan: I felt the mention of the Manhattan Chess Club suggested that as the venue. The intent was to briefly identify who exactly Betts was. And yes, word count entered into it as I felt the first mention suggested the venue without the need to repeat that as the location. Let me think on it. |
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Oct-18-13
 | | OhioChessFan: How about
Colonel G. F. Betts, Vice President of the <host site> Manhattan Chess Club, opened the proceedings of the match and introduced the players on December 9, 1890 |
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Oct-18-13
 | | OhioChessFan: So long as the VP was the club director, that works. |
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Oct-18-13
 | | WCC Editing Project:
Good morning.
What about
<The match began on 9 Dec 1890 in the Manhattan Chess Club. Club director Colonel G.F. Betts opened the proceedings and introduced the players.> Don't worry about the format for writing the dates- it hasn't been decided yet. I currently favor the method "Skinner and Verhoeven" use in their Alekhine book, because it saves space, as least visually. Ironically, I don't think it actually reduces the word count. But it looks cleaner and easier to read, at least to my eyes. In their method, if an event began on December 1, 1911 and ended on January 23, 1912, you would write it like this: <2 Dec 1911 - 23 Jan 1912> No punctuation used after the month to signify either an abbreviation or a pause. |
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Oct-18-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Ohio> Quite right, he's the V.P. So what about
<The match began on 9 Dec 1890 in the Manhattan Chess Club. Club vice president Colonel G.F. Betts opened the proceedings and introduced the players.> |
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Oct-18-13
 | | OhioChessFan: I'd like the v and p to be capitalized, but it's a nice sentence. |
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Oct-18-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Ohio> I appreciate your feedback on this and so many other editing matters, thank you again. I didn't get where I am today by not thanking valuable colleagues. Regardless of which sentence <Karpova> decides on, capital letters will not be used on the final html versions, except to begin sentences or proper nouns, as decided before. On a related note, I prefer your <VP> to my <V.P.>, by a wide margin. It's consistent with the dating method I was just talking about. |
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Later Kibitzing> |
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