|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 99 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Apr-22-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Switch>
Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 Thank you- I have sorted the sourcing issue a bit better now. At least I know who <Leonard Barden> is. I read a book he co-wrote about Spassky once. Or twice. All of the notes and references are in now and they appear to match. I'll have to check them all "manually" still to make sure the source information actually matches what I wrote in the draft. |
|
Apr-22-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <TimHio>
I'm going to leave it without a comma, for the time being. |
|
| Apr-23-14 | | dakgootje: I'd like it without a comma, unless you add an s - then it's compulsory. -- How are the Daniel Diaries coming along - no information on publication date? |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Charles Dakens>
Good to see you!
What are the <Daniel Diaries>? Is it a highly unauthorized and lurid account of the notorious life of our webmaster? If so, count me in. At the least, I can hand out flyers or park the cars. |
|
| Apr-23-14 | | Boomie: <What Cost Camembert?: What are the <Daniel Diaries>?> I had the <Daniel Diaries> pretty bad once but a strict roughage diet cleared it up. |
|
| Apr-23-14 | | Karpova: It would be nice if at least this forum was kept free from word games. They merely render posts unintelligible and lead, as in this case, to a bunch of unnecessary follow-up posts. And this is more than just annoying for someone who actually reads all of the posts in here. |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
I'm going to allow the word games, and I'm sorry if it causes you annoyance. I hope you can just skip over these posts. |
|
| Apr-23-14 | | dakgootje: Heh. For what it is worth, the <How are the Daniel Diaries coming along - no information on publication date?> concerned the unknown time-window of new draft publications ;P I'll give the 1951-match another glance in a while. |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <DakindofguyIliketoknow> Aha, thanks for the clarification.
I'll put up the new (real) due date for Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 up in our Profile, and also post it in the fora of our Soviet. |
|
| Apr-23-14 | | dakgootje: <World Cabbage Cheese Eating Project> Thanks :) Tomorrow I'll visit my local grossery to try out that Dates with Korean Thyme-recipe. |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
<Colleagues>- Since Daniel has now finished the corrections on FIDE World Championship Tournament (1948), here is the new due date, when I'll submit our next draft to <crawfb5>: **CURRENT DRAFT UNDER INSPECTION FOR PROMOTION: Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 **DUE DATE- THE DAY I WILL SUBMIT THIS DRAFT TO <Daniel>: Submission Day <<<Sunday, 27 April (Korean time)>>> |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: <But his performance against the best Soviet opposition was not yet strong enough to attain the grandmaster title.<7> [...] Bronstein won, and was immediately awarded the Soviet grandmaster title.<7>> I think the first sentence should make it clearer that we're talking about a Soviet title, not the international title. (Yes, the international FIDE GM title hadn't yet been introduced, but the average reader won't know that.) Also, "p.18" in ref 7 seems wrong; it should be "p.180" or "pp.180-181". |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Switch>
Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 Thank you!
I changed the sentence to this:
"But his performance against the best opposition was not yet strong enough to attain the Soviet grandmaster title." ########################
I corrected the page number for note <7> to 180-181: http://www.schack.se/tfs/history/19... |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | OhioChessFan: Did anyone really attain that title? You can attain a FIDE GM title, the rules are pretty clear cut, but the Soviet back room machinations were not so clear cut. Anyway, I think they were awarded the Soviet grandmaster title, in a far more arbitrary fashion than you'd normally think of attaning something. |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | OhioChessFan: On a related note, I think the earliest FIDE GM titles were more accurately awarded than attained. |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Ohio> Check on both counts. Depending on the year, or maybe even on the month, the Soviet Chess Federation would change the precise requirements for granting a master or grandmaster title. What remained constant, at least up through the years of our current topic, was that the requirements were stiff. In <Smyslov's> case, in the early 1940s the "rule" was that you had to win a USSR Championship to get the grandmaster title. But as you suggest, "rules" were flexible. Though <Smyslov> finished only 3d in the USSR Championship (1940), and 3d again in the
USSR Absolute Championship (1941), he was awarded the grandmaster title for the combined achievement in both events. -Smyslov, "125 Games" pp.9-10
##################
With respect to FIDE titles, yes they were awarded by vote at successive FIDE congresses. <Bronstein> was awarded the FIDE International Grandmaster title in July 1949. From the FIDE congress of that year: "1) The title of international grandmaster goes to the following players... Players who are qualified to participate in FIDE's Candidates tournament, for now the 14 who are qualified for Budapest..." -"Tidskrift för Schack" nr.7-8 (July-Aug 1949), p.159 (translation by User: Tabanus)
http://www.schack.se/tfs/history/19... |
|
Apr-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
That said, I think the word "attained" is accurate in the case of <Bronstein> in the years spoken of in the first paragraph. Alternate word suggestions, and further discussion of the overall issue, are welcome. |
|
Apr-24-14
 | | OhioChessFan: A couple tries and then an argument in favor of "attain". "But his performance against the best opposition was not yet strong enough to warrant the Soviet grandmaster title." "But his performance against the best opposition was not yet strong enough to be awarded the Soviet grandmaster title." "But his performance against the best opposition was not yet strong enough to achieve the Soviet grandmaster title." Now an argument in favor of "attain". An analogy for baseball fans: "While a great player, Eddy Project's career performance wasn't strong enough to attain induction into the Hall of Fame." Is being voted into the Hall of Fame a bit arbitrary? Yes. Does the word "attain" work in that sentence? Wellllll......yeah. So after a half night's sleep(Why do I wake up at 4AM every day?), I don't object to "attain" although I think it's possible something better is out there. |
|
Apr-24-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <OhioBaseballFan>
"Eddie Project"?
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Happy Easter sir.
Well you sold me. I'm putting this one in the draft now: <But his performance against the best opposition was not yet strong enough to achieve the Soviet grandmaster title.> ####################
I also slightly changed this sentence:
<A year later, his strong 2d behind Isaac Boleslavsky in the 1940 Ukrainian Championship earned him the Soviet national master title.<3,4>> And I replaced <Hooper and Whyld> as the source for note <4>. I put in a more direct source for Bronstein attai(cough) achieving the <national> master title, which <crawfb5> alerted me to: <David Bronstein and Tom Fürstenberg, "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" (Cadogan 1995), p.264> |
|
Apr-24-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: I also appreciated you arguing "against yourself."
The first half won the argument, as I see it. |
|
| Apr-25-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Marshall 1907 C.N. 8641 gives link to http://memphischessclub.blogspot.ch... |
|
Apr-25-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
That is an excellent find, thank you! The article even gives proper data provenance with primary sources with page numbers. I will add the chessnote with <memphis> list to the mirror, just below the draft. I should check again with him, but if I recall correctly, I believe <crawfb5> has no problem with us working on his draft. #########################
<Edward Winter, Chess Note 8641. Lasker v Marshall world title match>
http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... Dwight Weaver (Southaven, MS, USA) draws our attention to his article World Chess Championship in Tennessee – 1907, which includes an account of Marshall’s protest over the use of stop-watches rather than a chess clock. http://memphischessclub.blogspot.ch... |
|
Apr-25-14
 | | OhioChessFan: The teeniest tiniest of quibbles. The first paragraph of the current draft under review has the word "earned" three times. It's fine as is, but I think it's possible we can eliminate that itsy bitsy bit of repetitiousness, to wit: <which earned him a spot on the lower boards in Soviet team events> Tossing out for consideration using the word "gained" or "garnered" there instead of "earned". |
|
Apr-25-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <OhNoooo>
Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 Good idea. I put "garnered" in. |
|
Apr-26-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <A year later, his strong 2d behind Isaac Boleslavsky in the 1940 Ukrainian Championship earned him the Soviet national master title.1,3> <Four years later he qualified for the USSR Championship (1944), finishing 15th and notching his first <career victory> - <insert game link here>-Bronstein vs Botvinnik, 1944 over Mikhail Botvinnik. > I would slightly prefer the game link to be on "Mikhail Botvinnik" and then making the next iteration of Mikey's name the link to his player page. I don't think that should be too confusing to readers and it seems to me to make the sentence flow much better per the link/narrative synthesis. |
|
 |
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 99 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |