The gameloader doesn't seem to recognize the SourceTitle, SourceDate, and SourceVersionDate tags. Is there a reason we're not using the basic Source tag instead?

< For multi-stage events there ought to be a way of reflecting the different stages in the individual game PGNs whilst housing them all together in the same event collection.>

From https://ia902908.us.archive.org/26/...

<9.2.4: Tag: Stage

This uses a string; this is used for the stage of a multistage event (e.g., "Preliminary" or "Semifinal").>

Perhaps we can add the Stage tag to the PGNs' header and display it in the game's header when reviewing the game. We may first need to update the gameloader to recognize the Stage tag for it to work.
We can then add another filter in the " REFINE SEARCH" section on the event's page to only display the selected stage, though this feature may take a bit longer to implement.

<<365chess> + <CB> have long handled this by appending qualifiers to the basic event name.>

Just a 30 second code update for <Daniel>, I would guess. A little longer for the rest of us, but pretty direct.

I think <Missy> could be a bit more direct and explicit on the <Site> tag - and make his post more readable and self-contained.

I'm also not sure if the passing-shot at <drantos> is the most constructive method to address any grievances.

Do submitters get guidance with feedback in an email?

Might be best to keep it on the q.t. at first, and amplify only if ignored.

That's why <365> and <cb> do what they do, to allow the <PGN> to work between platforms.

<CG> could conform with this goal on the <PGN> (i.e. the <Event> tag maps to an xtab), by introducing a unifying tag instead of a subdividing one.

You need an architect with experience in both chess, database organization, programming, and good looks.

<CG> could conform with this goal on the <PGN> (i.e. the <Event> tag maps to an xtab), by introducing a unifying tag instead of a subdividing one.>

https://www.365chess.com/tournament...

You notice three entries from the same tournament - the main tournament, a playoff, and annulled games due to a dropout.

We can achieve the same functionality by tagging the games with a "Stage" tag and placing filters above the games' table (e.g. All | Playoff | Survival | Semifinals | KO ).

<<365chess> + <CB> have long handled this by appending qualifiers to the basic event name.>

<CG> is a database onto itself - so they is a tremendous amount of flexibility as to how it handles things.

E.g. I never quite gone the hidden tournament layer <Daniel> used, and which remains to this day.

The common language which everybody uses, however, is PGN. And it's clearly my obsession.

I use SCID, which is essentially equivalent to <CG>. But again, one's interface doesn't matter much as the all must revolve around PGN.

So, everybody relied on an army of volunteers submitting PGN versions of games in the beginning up to today.

E.g. you want the latest tournament games - you either download the PGN from the tournament site or wait and download the "regularized" PGN of the games from TWIC.

Did I mention TWIC follows the 365 + CB + Z-base conventions?!

(Downloading from a tournament site is problematic, as conventions differ - TWIC sets a good standard)

So all the games come in as PGN. That's means they go into a giant bowl - which is either a toilet bowl, or a fruit bowl, depending on your perspective.

Let's ask - how does one group games in the bowl into a tournament?

<CG> does this via a tid, but let's just ask how an interface to a db would do it with a giant collection of games submitted by various volunteers.

I suggest via the triplet of PGN headers - (<Event>, <Site>, <EventDate>).

That would work if people understood the importance of the <EventDate> tag from the get-go - which they didn't.

(The noted historian <Tim Harding> even wrote an entire article on Chess Cafe (irrc) urging people to properly utilize the <EventDate> tag.)

Of course, nobody really appreciated teh <EvenDate> tag - so all the database interfaces were forced to adopt kludgy algorithms base on the <Date> tag of a game for grouping.

Let's acknowledge this by writing the triplet as (<Event>, <Site>, "<EventDate>" = (<Date>'s within a window of time)). We omit the quotes hereafter as being understood.

Now - when I say tournament that too is understood as "tournament". It really means a group of games such that a program can construct a meaningful crosstable (xtab).

Remember, all this is for a program to handle stuff "intelligently" - pre-AI. After AI we don't need the human overview - but back in 1990's when the PGN system was invented....

The essential organizing principle is the xtab. Look at any tournament report, and you will see a progression of xtabs - starting with a round of preliminary qualifiers, going to the main event, then heading into various playoffs.

And that is why the <Event> tag was "over-loaded" in the PGN.

You see the grouping in your database handler's tournament listing all start with the same stem, with a post-fix identifying the "Stage".

<CG> can respect this organization easily, while maintaining the PGN versions of the <Event> tag.

It merely has to do what everybody else is doing - i.e. <365chess>, <ChessBase>, <ChessTempo>, <TWIC>, etc.

All you need is a grouping on the <CG> tournament page - i.e. a superstructure framework.

Then you need to think of a superstructure on top of that - i.e. for WCC cycles (zonal -> interzonal -> WCC), or Grand Prixe cycles, etc.

The idea isn't to subdivide from below, but to organize from above.

Whew, OK, I've had my say. Hopefully I didn't just waste my breath, so to speak.

Please do something about that <Too many request have been made If you believe this to be an error please email us at chess@chessgames.com> nonsense I keep getting.

We've made an update last night. Let us know if the issue continues.

<z>

It's a bit much to absorb at the moment. I definitely do not understand enough to integrate this concept with CG. I'll get back to you when I get to do a bit more research. I'm a bit confused with you saying TWIC uses this technique but I don't see it in the example below taken from TWIC( https://theweekinchess.com/a-year-o... ):

[Event "CCT Final Playoff 2023"]
[Site "Toronto CAN"]
[Date "2023.12.12"]
[Round "7.2"]
[White "So, Wesley"]
[Black "Caruana, Fabiano"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E32"]
[Opening "Nimzo-Indian"]
[Variation "classical variation"]
[EventDate "2023.12.01"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Qc2 O-O 5. e4 d5 6. e5 Ne4 7. Nf3 c5 8. Bd3 cxd4 9. Nxd4 Nd7 10. Bf4 Qh4 11. g3 Qh5 12. O-O g5 13. cxd5 Nxc3 14. dxe6 gxf4 15. exd7 Bxd7 16. bxc3 fxg3 17. hxg3 Rac8 18. Bf5 Bxc3 19. Bxd7 Bxa1 20. Bxc8 Bxd4 21. Bxb7 Qxe5 22. Kg2 Rb8 23. Rb1 Kg7 24. Qe4 Qxe4+ 25. Bxe4 Rxb1 26. Bxb1 Bb6 27. Bc2 h6 28. Bb3 Bc5 29. Bc4 Bb6 30. Bb3 Bc5 31. Bc4 1/2-1/2

That's the right answer.

(I've written about about this stuff, so many times, that I just did what amounts to a core dump summary.)

* * * * * *

Since we're here...

RE: TWIC example

Look at the triplet of tags:

<
[Event "CCT Final Playoff 2023"]
[Site "Toronto CAN"]
[EventDate "2023.12.01"]
>

So, the post-fix, <Final Playoff 2023> identifies this as the playoff "stage".

I imagine the non-playoff will have an <Event> tag like this:

<[Event "CCT 2023"]>

Technicality: the <EventDate> for the playoff likely will have a different date - denoting the first day of the playoff.

There's no linkage then, in the PGN, between the playoff and the tournament, not explicit enough for a program like SCID (though an algorithm could do this).

But the proximity in date, and usually site, together with the shared event name "stem", allows a human to make the connection.

Most servers group them too, I imagine by hand coding the server page.

How you serve the game PGN's (all in one zip file, or a zip for each "stage") is up to the server.

(E.g. I think TWIC puts all the games together (can't remember exactly though), while 365chess breaks each stage out)

<CG> has a TID already, but you need a "stage" qualifier to keep track of the different event names if you're factoring out the event name (db style) for the games.