|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 28 OF 914 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-28-08 | | JoeWms: <Think about it.> I did. I did. I got a pain in my thinker. Maybe the sighted player was hoping to catch blindfold in a blind man's bluff because blindfold couldn't read the little board. Give, p.b. Give.
|
|
| Feb-29-08 | | JoeWms: No, that doesn't work: Blindfold plays with his back to the board, doesn't he? |
|
Feb-29-08
 | | Phony Benoni: <JoeWms: Blindfold plays with his back to the board, doesn't he?> That's the point. He wouldn't know--or care--how big the set was, so it was kind of silly to ask. Well, it struck me as funny. |
|
| Mar-02-08 | | Karpova: I submitted a correction long ago:
Jan Kleczynski
There were two Jan Kleczynskis (father and son).
Father: 1837 to 1895
Son: 1875 to 1939
Both played chess. The first two games (against Winawer, 1868 and 1871) are probably from father Kleczynski. The next three games must be from his son (considering that the opponents were Duchamp, Tartakower and Chepurnov). Wrong name (correction submitted long ago):
A Mund
This is A Mundt (and I pointed it out when submitting the 1907 game). The crosstable confirms that Mundt is the correct spelling. |
|
Mar-03-08
 | | Phony Benoni: <Karpova> Thanks. What I have done (and this may change in the future) is start a games collection (Game Collection: Database corrections submitted) containing the affected games, a brief indication of the problem, and the date. I think the last of these is important; if we can document that a suggested changes haven't been made in several years, this can be evidence that some sort of change in the correction procedure needs to be considered. There is also a collection for Game Collection: Database Questions for unresolved
problems; as these are they can be submitted and moved to the other collection. I want to emphasize right at the start that this documentation is not meant as a criticism of the chessgames.com administrators. They provide a wonderful job of providing not just a database, but a community where the games can be discussed. Maintaining the site and adding new games, tournaments and features will always be higher priority than corrections, but I wish there was some way we could get more people doing such updates. Perhaps I should explain my interest in the topic. As I've mentioned in my profile, I'm a librarian who specializes in cataloging, which means that I am responsible adding and maintaining the information you find in a database which represents the library's catalog. A large part of my job is "authority work", which involves making sure that standardized search terms such as author's name are used consistently. You want to be able to find all of Capablanca's books at once, instead of having half under "Jose Raul Capablanca", half under "Jose R. Capablanca", half under "J. R. Capablanca", and the rest under "Capablanka". I've been doing this for over 25 years, so you can see that an obsession the accuracy of the chessgames.com database is in my blood. |
|
Mar-03-08
 | | Phony Benoni: What sort of information should be in a correction request? I generally try to include the following: 1) A brief description of the problem;
2) A brief description of the solution;
3) Some source which backs up the correcton.
When making references to games or players in the database, I try to give the direct links to them. Anything that makes the job of the corrector easier has to be a good idea. I can't say that I have had more success than anybody else in getting corrections, but I do think it important to justify my reasoning as much as possible How do others do it? Am I being too obsessive about this? |
|
| Mar-04-08 | | nescio: I have never formulated them, but I always followed more or less your rules in correction reports. They are sensible. I don't know if I always have much time for this, but would you like me to mention it here when I suspect an error that needs confirmation which I don't have at hand or don't want to spend the time on? I have for example two questions about the game Rossolimo vs I Romanenko, 1948: a) Was this game really played in Badgastein or was it Salzburg? The two towns are not a great distance apart and Rossolimo played indeed in Badgastein in 1948, but I don't think Romanenko was there. b) My memory tells me that Black resigned after 17.Ng5. Were the last moves by Black and White really played? I don't think it's enough to look in other databases to answer such questions. |
|
Mar-04-08
 | | Phony Benoni: <nescio: ...but would you like me to mention it here when I suspect an error that needs confirmation which I don't have at hand or don't want to spend the time on?> That was the idea. I thought of this forum as essentially an alerting service so that we wouldn't have to go through all the current kibitizes to find problems. I've added the game to Game Collection: Database Questions, which people might check from time to time as well. I've also done a little bit searching, with these results: 1) The game was not played in the tournament at Bad Gastein 1948; see http://www.365chess.com/tournaments... 2) Of course it may have been a simul or other offhand game. What evidence do you find for Salzburg? 3) We can't be sure of Black's identity.
4) I was unable to find this game online to check the score. Does somebody find a source for the game? However, I think you're right that we can't rely strictly on databases; it's easy for mistakes to get downloaded from one to another. To be sure of what is going on, we should find out the original publication details, but for our purposes reliable second hand sources should do. |
|
| Mar-04-08 | | nescio: <What evidence do you find for Salzburg?> Some sources on the internet give Badgastein, others Salzburg. For example http://us.geocities.com/explorer127... Rossolimo - Romanenko
Salzburg, 1948
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g6 4.O-O Bg7 5.Re1 Nf6 6.Nc3 Nd4 7.e5 Ng8
[7...Ng4 8.Nxd4 cxd4 9.Qxg4 dxc3 10.e6]
8.d3 Nxb5 9.Nxb5 a6 10.Nd6+ exd6 11.Bg5 Qa5 12.exd6+ Kf8 13.Re8+ Kxe8 14.Qe2+ Kf8 15.Be7+ Ke8 16.Bd8+ Kxd8 17.Ng5 Black resigns (threat: 18. Nxf7#; 17... Nh6 Qe7#)
1-0
or http://www.newinchess.com/NICBase/
[Event "Salzburg"]
[Site ""]
[Date "1948.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rossolimo, Nicolas"]
[Black "Romanenko, Ivan Simon"]
[Result "1-0"]
[NIC "SI 31.7.7"]
[ECO "B31"]
[PlyCount "33"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 g6 4. O-O Bg7 5. Re1 Nf6 6. Nc3 Nd4 7. e5 Ng8 8. d3 Nxb5
9. Nxb5 a6 10. Nd6 exd6 11. Bg5 Qa5 12. exd6 Kf8 13. Re8 Kxe8 14. Qe2 Kf8 15.
Be7 Ke8 16. Bd8 Kxd8 17. Ng5 1-0
And as a curiosity, this bookmarker says the game was played in a coffee house in Vienna: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/... If it was played in a coffee house we may not find out where, but all these examples finish after 17.Ng5. |
|
| Mar-04-08 | | nescio: To make my own sheet a little cleaner I have assembled some of my recent correction attempts which I think aren't unimportant and which you may add to the Database corrections submitted collection: Uhlmann vs Portisch, 1964 See my kibitz. Ljubojeviv Lj vs Short, 1989 and Ljubojeviv Lj for obvious reasons I suggested to merge the games of Germek Milan, Germek and M Germek. His real name is Milan Germek. Euwe vs Vidmar, 1946 After submitting the games of a tournament I had an email exchange with mr. Freeman and I mentioned the last game, which was registered as Euwe-Bernstein, in passing. He corrected the header but apparently forgot to remove Bernstein's name from the PGN with this comical result. |
|
Mar-07-08
 | | Phony Benoni: If anyone has a collection of games by Schlechter or Pillsbury, you might check in at Pillsbury vs Schlechter, 1904 and see if you can help clear up a mystery. |
|
Mar-16-08
 | | Phony Benoni: The following are duplicate games:
(1) A Zaitsev vs Uhlmann, 1968
(2) A Zaitsev vs Uhlmann, 1968 How would you decide which should be deleted? Game 1 was input first, as part of a collection of Uhlmann's games. Game (2) was input as part of the tournament, and has more complete information about the event inlcuidng round numer and date. Personally, I prefer to keep the tournament games together (especially with the more complete information) and requested that (1) be deleted. |
|
| Mar-27-08 | | nescio: <Personally, I prefer to keep the tournament games together (especially with the more complete information) and requested that (1) be deleted.> I agree.
Do you have access to American chess magazines from the 1960's? I wonder if Bisguier ever commented on the strange game Bisguier vs A Matanovic, 1961.
From move 60 onward Bisguier needlessly sacrificed his two remaining pieces for two black pawns and was mated by the two black knights because he still had a pawn left. He must have known that he couldn't draw that way. My question is: Did he really play these moves and if yes, why? |
|
Mar-27-08
 | | Phony Benoni: <nescio> Resignation Trap might be a good person for this question; he has some sources from that time. I used to have a good chess library, but had to sell off most of it due to financial needs. But I think it's quite possible that Bisguier did play that way. He may have been relying on Fine's <Basic Chess Endings>, which as I recall had some serious flaws in the analysis of 2Ns vs. P. |
|
Apr-14-08
 | | WannaBe: This page needs some 'attention', last kibitz'n happened March 27th... So, here is my mindless ramblin':
<MICHIGAN>!??! How on earth did I end up in <MICHIGAN>?!?! Should have made a left turn in Albuquerque! |
|
Apr-14-08
 | | Phony Benoni: <WannaBe> I've been working at home a lot lately. We just got a large shipment of DVDs at the library, and they needed to be previewed to gather cataloging information. Yes, it's a tough job, but somebody has to do it. Plus I'm depressed today. I still owe $4 for my share of Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick's legal fees. I've put it off as long as I could, but it's due tomorrow. Maybe I'll catch a flight to Albuquerque and mail it from there. Just let me get out my American Airlines schedule ... |
|
| Apr-14-08 | | positionalgenius: <PB> You killed me. I'll offer a rematch in a few months after getting better at corr. chess. Good game |
|
| Apr-14-08 | | positionalgenius: Phony Benoni 42 days, 12 hours
1961 (89)
Positionalgenius 38 days, 10 hours
1345 (265)
1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Qxd4 Nc6 5. Bb5 Bd7 6. Bxc6 Bxc6 7. Nc3 e5 8. Qd3 Nf6 9. Bg5 Be7 10. Rd1 Qc7 11. O-O Rd8 12. Bxf6 gxf6 13. Nh4 Bd7 14. Nd5 Qc8 15. Nxe7 Kxe7 16. Qxd6+ Ke8 17. Qxf6 1-0
White Win
|
|
| Apr-15-08 | | Calli: <There is also a collection for Game Collection: Database Questions for unresolved problems; as these are they can be submitted and moved to the other collection.> A modest proposal:
It occurred to me that a universal tag would be useful. A unique string that could be found via the Search Kibitzing function. For instance, if each post with a correction contained "DB_Correction" or "DBC:" or some such agreed upon tag, the progress or lack thereof could easily be tracked. What do you think? |
|
Apr-17-08
 | | Phony Benoni: <Positional Genius> I really didn't have to do much in our game. Maybe 12...gxf6 wasn't such a good idea. That encouraged me to play 13.Nh4 aiming for f5 which encouraged you to play 13...Bd7 which allowed 14.Nd5 to be a bit nasty. But, of course, 14...Qc8 was simply a blunder; you had to put the queen onto a square that protected the d-pawn. Your king can get stuck in the center, but after 12...gxf6 you probably weren't castling kingside anyway. |
|
Apr-17-08
 | | Phony Benoni: <Calli> That sounds like a good idea, and right now "DBC" is a unique string. It bothers me when someone mentions a problem in the kibitzes but doesn't say whether they actually submitted a correction. The tag would save a lot of searching. My only problem with it is that the kibitz stays there forever, so the tag would remain there even if the problem were fixed. Maybe we could add a second kbitiz noting that the problem had been resolved. That was one reason I was using a collection which could be added to or subtracted from at will. However, I have to say that I probably won't be around much for some time. I'm having to bring home a lot of work these days, and have no idea when it will et up. |
|
| Apr-17-08 | | Calli: Its a good point. Of course, presently, there are already many kibitzes that are confusing due to corrections. For instance, when a score is corrected, some times a whole discussion remains to the bewilderment of the newcomer. Perhaps CG could delete the DBC kibitz when the correction is made. Actually they should review the kibitzes everytime a correction is made and delete all the references to the error. |
|
Apr-18-08
 | | Phony Benoni: <Calli> All good ideas, given unlimited time and even more personpower. It would be nice if some trusted individuals had limited access to the database to make certain kinds of changes, but I imagine that security problems would squelch any such idea. |
|
| Apr-27-08 | | positionalgenius: <PB> After 12...gxf6 i knew i was toast. I'll rematch you in a little while. |
|
May-04-08
 | | Phony Benoni: <Calli> It just occurred to me that keeping outdated kibitzes might actually be a good thing, since they document changes debated in the past should the question arise again. Think of the controversy over the year of the famous Glucksberg-Najdorf game, for instance. |
|
 |
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 28 OF 914 ·
Later Kibitzing> |