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Nov-26-12
 | | keypusher: <phony benoni>
<By the way, in looking up Bradshaw's record I noticed that, before Joe Montana in 1989, only one quarterback in history had a passer rating over 110 for an entire season. Care to guess? Your clue: he was once nearly decapitated by Alex Karras.> Milt Plum, of course! This fact is sometimes used to denigrate ratings, but that year Plum had 21 TDs and 5 INTs and averaged, I think, over 9 yards a pass. That is terrific, even taking into account having Jim Brown to distract defenses. Of course 110 was an outlier for Plum, but he seems to have been a good QB, for a few years anyway. |
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Nov-26-12
 | | Phony Benoni: <JB> Plum was obviously a good quarterback for Cleveland (he had a rating over 90 the next year), but went downhill immediately after the trade to Detroit before the 1962 season.. I think you're right that Jim Brown added a lot to his game. With Detroit he needed to be a more important part of the offense, and it never worked out. Plus he walked into a quarterback controversy with a aging but popular incumbent in Earl Morrall. The real contrast I wanted to make was between him and the possibly technically inferior Bradshaw was that Plum seemed to lack whatever special leadership quality Bradshaw had. I imagine there were days that Mean Joe Greene was not happy with Bradshaw, but I don't recall him bouncing a Coke bottle off Terry's head. With that, I should acknowledge <OCF>'s point that it is completely misleading to say that Bradshaw won Super Bowls without acknowledging the team effort involved. He was just a part of package, and probably not the overwhelmingly important part he may be credited as being. But I will maintain that he made positive contributions, and that it's quite probable the team wouldn't have been as great without him. Him and a dozen other players, to be sure, but he gets some credit. |
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| Nov-27-12 | | Mrs. Alekhine: Hello- When I changed the date on this game, S F Lebedev vs Alekhine, 1914 it shows as <1914> in the database, but when I load it to my games collection, it still says <1913>? Game Collection: All Russian Masters Tournament 1914 Why would the date change instantly in the database listing, but not change when uploaded to my games collection? Will it change to the correct date in my games collection after some time, or is this a bug? I even deleted it from my collection and then re-added it, and it still shows 1913. |
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| Nov-27-12 | | Mrs. Alekhine: Exactly the same problem with this game, but none of the others I changed today: Znosko-Borovsky vs Alekhine, 1914 |
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Nov-27-12
 | | keypusher: <phoney benoni>
Following up on your last, I looked at Plum's annus mirabilis (1960) a little more closely at pro football reference. http://www.pro-football-reference.c...
Cleveland had some talent! Jim Brown led the league in rushing, of course, and they also had Hall of Famer Billy Mitchell. Plum's backup was Len Dawson, who also became a pretty good quarterback in the minors. :-) The Browns easily led the league in scoring. So I thought the defense must be bad, but in fact they were fourth in the league in points allowed, just 12 points behind the leaders (San Fran). Nevertheless, the Browns finished 8-3-1, a game and a half behind Norm Van Brocklin's Eagles in the East. They scored more points and allowed fewer than the Eagles, so if you do a projected record based purely on point differential, you project 9.2 wins for the Browns and 7.8 for the Eagles. But that's not how they pick the winner...The Browns' losses were 31-29 to the Eagles, 17-13 to the Giants and 14-10 to the Steelers. They tied the Cardinals 17-17 in what must have been a bizarre game -- the Cardinals had five INTs against 9 pass completions. Plum had no picks and 2 TDs, overall turnovers were 6:2, but the Browns couldn't hold a 17-7 lead. After that game the Eagles were 8-1-0 and the Browns were 5-3-1, so the Eastern Conference was pretty much decided. Against Pittsburgh Plum threw for 327 yards but the Browns scored just 10 points. So maybe something was lacking there...anyway, the next year, Plum had a 90+ rating as you note, Jim Brown ran for 1400 yards and the Browns finished third. The next year Plum was gone to be Alex Karras' bane. The Browns won the title in 1964 with Dr. Frank Ryan. Apart from the 9-7 loss to the Packers, the '62 Lions lost 17-14 to the Giants and 3-0 to the Bears. The 1962 Packers are regarded as one of the greatest NFL teams ever, but that was an awfully good Lions squad. |
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| Nov-27-12 | | Jim Bartle: 1960 was the year of Chuck Bednarik and Norm van Brocklin on the Eagles, who defeated Green Bay in its first appearance in the championship game of the Lombardi era. 1963 was the year George Plimpton was on the Lions' preseason roster, and painted sympathetic portraits of Plum and Morrall in "Paper Lion." Too bad Karras ws suspended for the year. He still got a crazy chapter in the book. |
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Nov-27-12
 | | keypusher: Bobby Mitchell, not Billy Mitchell. Ah well, both dangerous masters of aerial attack. <Jim Bartle> I do have to read Paper Lion before I die. |
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Nov-27-12
 | | WannaBe: Margaret Mitchell. |
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| Nov-27-12 | | Jim Bartle: Right, Bobby Mitchell, who was traded to Washington where he became a great receiver. He was traded for draft pick Ernie Davis, the Heisman Trophy winner from Syracuse who died a couple of years later. I believe Mitchell was the first black on the Redskins. Billy Mitchell was a military expert who said shortly after WWI that air power was going to become more important than naval power. Then, I'm not sure, he arranged for fighter planes to attack mothballed ships to demonstrate his thesis, and was court-martialed. Gary Cooper played him in the movie. "Paper Lion" really is an excellent book, but you have to remember it was written in a time when little negative was written about athletes, and little about the inner workings of teams. So it may seem pretty naive today. But it really was the first of the real inside stories of teams (Plimpton's earlier "Out of My League" was different, pitching against a major league All-Star team), and he does a great job showing how tough it is to play on a pro football team. Plus lots of great stories with Night Train Lane, Joe Schmidt, Terry Barr, John Gordy, big Roger Brown, and Gail Cogdill. There wasn't too much about the coaches, as I remember, even head coach George Wilson. Today any story would emphasize the coaches a lot more. |
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| Nov-27-12 | | Jim Bartle: HoF or not, Miller has to be one of the most influential non-players in baseball history, the equal of Branch Rickey or Judge Landis. |
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Nov-27-12
 | | keypusher: <Jim Bartle: Right, Bobby Mitchell, who was traded to Washington where he became a great receiver. He was traded for draft pick Ernie Davis, the Heisman Trophy winner from Syracuse who died a couple of years later. I believe Mitchell was the first black on the Redskins.> Yes, when he went to the 'Skins somebody wrote that Mitchell faced the blackest future and the whitest huddle in the NFL. George Preston Marshall was a showman and an innovator, but also a racist. I would put Marvin Miller in the Hall of Fame. Bill James too. Henry Chadwick, the inventor of the box score, is in, rightly I think. http://baseballhall.org/hof/chadwic... |
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| Nov-28-12 | | Shams: If you can handle one more piece on Armstrong and doping, this one is quite good:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n22/david-... |
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| Nov-28-12 | | playground player: Bonds, Sosa, and Clemens on the Hall of Fame ballot this year--but I don't know whether it's the Baseball HOF or the Pharmaceutical HOF. |
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| Nov-28-12 | | Jim Bartle: Good point! None of the three will be elected this year. Quite a slap in the face. Concerning Bonds, SI writer Tom Verducci had some suggestions for rules changes, and one I found really interesting. He wrote that it was fine if players like Bonds want to wear all that body armor, such as those huge elbow shields. No problem. (Obviously this doesn't include helmets.) But if the batter is hit on that protective equipment, it's just a ball. No hit batsman. No first base. Sounds good to me. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20... |
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Nov-28-12
 | | keypusher: <Shams: If you can handle one more piece on Armstrong and doping, this one is quite good: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n22/david>-... Thanks, Shams. I haven't followed the story closely at all, so I learned a lot. Now I don't have to read about it any more! I was trying to understand my own aversion to learning about the Armstrong saga, and I realized: it's because needles give me the heebie-jeebies. Reading about doping makes my skin crawl. I couldn't get through Naked Lunch because of all the injecting. Thank God my drug of choice is administered orally! |
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Nov-28-12
 | | OhioChessFan: <It’s official. Anchoring of the golf club – not only putters, but any golf club – will be banned on Jan. 1, 2016.> What took so long? I just won some bragging rights with a friend who's a club pro, because I predicted (a long time ago) that it would be outlawed. Better late than never anyway. |
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Nov-28-12
 | | WannaBe: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8... funny article!! |
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| Nov-28-12 | | playground player: <Phony Benoni> I didn't know you were a wrestling fan! Now that I know, I think you'll enjoy this little video treasure (if the link works--always problematic with me) http://redux.com/stream/item/227867... |
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Nov-28-12
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Phony Benoni> I finished this tournament collection, my first ever, so I was hoping you might take a look at it before I nominate it for promotion. If you have any corrections or suggestions for improvement that would be excellent. Thanks, JFQ
Game Collection: St. Petersburg 1913 Quadrangular |
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| Nov-28-12 | | Shams: <keypusher> Normally I'm not so squeamish about needles, but the story of Hamilton accidentally receiving another rider's blood was disgusting. And isn't that, you know...potentially fatal? <OCF> What is a "club pro" golfer? |
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Nov-28-12
 | | WannaBe: <Shams> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profes... |
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Nov-28-12
 | | OhioChessFan: A golf club is a privately owned golf course. In the USA, they almost all have accreditation by the United States Golf Association. People tend to not play on courses that aren't accredited. Part of that process involves having a club pro, sometimes called a teaching pro, who is an accredited professional, who has primary oversight over the operations. (I think most public courses likewise employ club pros) They have to take classwork and demonstrate a pretty high degree of playing ability to become a pro. I'm not sure, but I think they need a 4 year degree. The whole process is supposed to reassure players that someone who knows something about golf is overseeing the course, is available to teach, and has their back. It also reassures the equpiment companies and customers they have a person of pretty high caliber dealing with their thousands of dollars of equipment. |
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| Nov-28-12 | | Shams: <OCF> Thanks. Sounds like nice work if you can get it, though if it does exist the requirement for a four-year degree offends my sensibilities. |
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Nov-28-12
 | | OhioChessFan: I always found it odd that it's expected college and pro basketball coaches will have a 4 year degree, but there are no expectations at all for baseball coaches. |
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Nov-29-12
 | | Phony Benoni: <OCF> Might it be that pro football and basketball players usually have at least a token four-year degree (or used to, at any rate), while baseball players rarely graduate if they go at all. |
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