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| May-18-13 | | Jim Bartle: How is that possible? |
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| May-18-13 | | Jim Bartle: How about another challenge?
What team always had a Hall of Famer on the roster from 1910-2000? Has any team always had two HoFers? |
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May-18-13
 | | OhioChessFan: <I don't see what is inaccurate about the "three decades" comment. You have to play in three decades before you can play in four.> :o) |
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May-18-13
 | | Phony Benoni: <JB> I must be missing something. It seemed the best way to figure that out was to see which HOFers were still active in 2000; there can't have been too many. So I got this list, with the teams for whom they played in 2000: Tony Gwynn (Padres)
Cal Ripken (Orioles)
Rickey Henderson (Mets/Mariners)
Roberto Alomar (Indians)
Barry Larkin (Reds)
We can eliminate Gwynn and Henderson immediately since their teams were not in existence in 1910. The Reds had no HOFers in 1911; the Browns/Orioles failed in 1923, while the Indians made it all the way to 1958 before missing out. So what am I missing? |
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| May-18-13 | | Jim Bartle: Oh, I guess we have to set the cutoff date earlier, 1990 or 1980. My intention is to see which teams have had at least one, or two, great players every year. |
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| May-18-13 | | Jim Bartle: Looks tougher than I thought. The Yankees only go back from 1990 to 1975 (Winfield, Jackson, Hunter). Got the Red Sox back from 1990 to 1933 (Boggs, Yaz, Williams, Foxx, Ferrell, maybe Grove needed for a year). |
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May-18-13
| | Phony Benoni: The Red Sox came close to having one every year from 1901-1994. The only ones missing are 1923 (when they had HOF manager Frank Chance), 1931 (when they had HOF coach Hugh Duffy), and 1932 (nobody even close). Otherwise: 1901-1908 Cy Young
1909-1915 Tris Speaker
1916-1922 Herb Pennock
1923: best shot, Lefty O'Doul
1924-1930 Red Ruffing
1931-1932: nobody close
1933-1937: Rick Ferrell
1938-1945: Joe Cronin
1946-1960: Ted Williams
1961-1983: Carl Yastrzemski
1984-1992: Wade Boggs
1993-1994: Andre Dawson
After that, not much. Tim Wakefield probably doesn't have enough, while Roger Clemens probably has too much. David Ortiz is an intriguing possibility. On the other hand, the Tigers haven't had a HOF player since Al Kaline retired in 1974. Before that, they had a good streak going: 1903-1905: Sam Crawford
1906-1926: Ty Cobb
1927-1942: Charlie Gehringer
1943-1953: Hal Newhouser
1954-1974: Al Kaline
That's 72 straight seasons with an HOFer, which beats any of the Red Sox streaks. Let's see: the Yankees:
1901-1902: Roger Bresnahan
1903-1909: Jack Chesbro
1910-1912: none
1913-1914: Frank Chance
1915: none
1916-1919: Home Run Baker
1920-1934: some other Home Run guy
1935-1943: Bill Dickey
1944: Paul Waner (just snuck one in!)
1945-1946: Red Ruffing
1947-1963: Yogi Berra
1964-1968: Mickey Mantle
1969-1974: none
1975-1979: Catfish Hunter
1980-1981: Reggie Jackson
1982-1990: Dave Winfield
With multiple HOFers most years, of course. |
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| May-18-13 | | Jim Bartle: Great stuff. The Yanks really just have that hole between Mantle and Hunter. I'll take a look at the Giants. |
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| May-18-13 | | Jim Bartle: Giants
1900-1916 Mathewson
1917 none
1918 Waite Hoyt
1919-1926 Frisch
1927-1946 Ott
1947-1949 Mize
1950-1953 Irvin
1954-1972 Mays
1973 McCovey
1974 Kingman (ok, none)
1975-1976 none
1977-1980 McCovey
1981-1982 Joe Morgan
None after that, except one year each of Carlton and Gossage. I would have thought either Jack Clark or Chili Davis would be good enough, but fell short. Same with Will Clark. |
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May-18-13
| | Phony Benoni: There's one for the Giants in 1917: Ross Youngs (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/...). There's also Jim Thorpe, but I assume we're talking Baseball Hall of Fame. And, going back further: 1883-1889 Roger Connor
1890-1892 Amos Rusie
1893-1899 George Davis
So that covers the first 91 years of the franchise, from 1883-1973. Don't think that will be broken. |
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May-18-13
 | | perfidious: <Jim Bartle: Great stuff. The Yanks really just have that hole between Mantle and Hunter.> As an aside, there were, of course, plenty of holes after the Kansas City pipeline shut down: a sixth-place finish in '65, last the next year and the better part of a further decade where the once-proud franchise went through the doldrums, under the aegis of CBS. It is ironic that Hunter's last fine season (1975) was not enough, as the Red Sox came up with a surprise pennant. Does anyone remember that George Steinbrenner was asked whether he thought Hunter was worth his money, given that overall, he only had the one outstanding season in that contract? Bill James stated that Steinbrenner responded with something to the effect that ol' Catfish had brought respectability to the organisation. More thoughts to come on the lists of HOF players for these teams. |
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| May-18-13 | | Jim Bartle: Those down years are often called the Horace Clarke years. Poor guy. |
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May-19-13
| | perfidious: <Jim>: Another James piece dealt with why Clarke was considered mediocre by many Yankee fans; bet those fans would have loved him if he had come along in the mid-fifties and been just another name on a bunch of WS winners, instead of being the best player on the humdrum late sixties teams. |
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May-19-13
| | perfidious: <Phony Benoni>: Another team I tried to work through on the HOF list were Pirates: In order: Honus Wagner, Max Carey, Paul and Lloyd Waner, Arky Vaughan, Al Lopez and Ralph Kiner (ending in 1953), before too many years of being putrid left them with yet another hundred-loss team in '54 and no member of the Hall. The next year, Clemente debuted and began another nice streak for them. |
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May-19-13
| | Phony Benoni: OK, this research is now easy. Go to Baseball Reference: http://www.baseball-reference.com/
In the standings on the home page, you will see an <F> next to each team's name. Clicking this will take you to the Franchise Encyclopedia, where you can find another link to <Hall of Fame Register>, which contains a chronological list of all HOFers for that team (including managers). So going to the Baltimore Orioles/St. Louis Browns:
2001-1981 Cal Ripken
1980-1969 Jim Palmer
1968-1955 Brooks Robinson
1954 none
1953-1951 Satchel Paige
1948-1950 none
1947 Dizzy Dean
1944-1946 none
1941-1943 Rick Ferrell
1933-1937 Rogers Hornsby
1929-1932 Rick Ferrell
1928 Heinie Manush
1924-1927 George Sisler
1923 none
1915-1922 George Sisler
1902-1914 Bobby Wallace
1901 Hugh Duffy
The Dodgers had at least one every year from 1909-1980. Have fun looking! |
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| May-19-13 | | Jim Bartle: Didn't even think of looking at the Dodgers, since they were such a weak team the first half of the century. |
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May-19-13
| | Phony Benoni: The Dodgers were generally bad up to about 1940, but they were pennant winners in 1916 and 1920 and came close in 1924. Plus they were a New York team, which always helps fame wise. Just checked, and the Tigers' drought since 1974 is the longest current non-HOF streak. The only other team without a HOFer in that period is Colorado. Even Arizona had Roberto Alomar for a bit. |
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May-19-13
 | | keypusher: Not to be rude, but why on earth is Ross Youngs in the HOF? I know, Veterans Committee. I don't recall hearing about that as one of the crazier selections before though. |
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May-19-13
| | Phony Benoni: <keypusher> Well, there are several things: 1) Good ballplayer with a .322 lifetime average who played on five pennant winners in his ten-year career; 2) Tragedy factor: died from Bright's Disease at the age of 30 3) New York bias; played entire career with the Giants; 4) The Veterans Committee which elected him in 1972 was made up of former teammates. Ahem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Y... |
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May-19-13
| | perfidious: <keypusher>: You're not the only one who has wondered, and there are worse selections than Youngs in Cooperstown. The halo effect mentioned by <Phony Benoni> counts for something (it certainly got Earle Combs in, amongst others), though in my opinion, Youngs' career average-while good-was nothing special compared to the greatest players of the time. The 1920s saw bloated offensive numbers all round. Those were the days of Harry Heilmann and Rogers Hornsby hitting .400 multiple times each. None of this would have been enough to see Youngs home but for the Veterans Committee, though. |
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| May-19-13 | | Jim Bartle: Batting averages and power were so high in the 20s and 30s that a lot of players look better today than they were. |
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May-19-13
| | perfidious: <Jim>: The converse is also true: Lefty Grove's career ERA (3.06, 180th) would be lucky to get him consideration, but the numbers he posted in the era were eye-popping, all in hitters' parks: http://www.baseball-reference.com/p... |
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| May-19-13 | | Jim Bartle: I think people pay attention more to the gaudy win-loss records in that era, rather than ERA. Those certainly don't compare to Mathewson and others at the beginning of the century. |
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May-22-13
| | Phony Benoni: Probably not exactly the way he would have chosen to go out, but ending as a Bear was the right thing to do: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport... |
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| May-22-13 | | Travis Bickle: You're right Phony, The Bears didn't have enough class to sign him to a final deal. P.S. Take care pal, let me know if somebody's bothering you.
Travis |
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