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| Apr-29-14 | | technical draw: From my forum:
<But now I feel like unleashing myself and going head first into various types of debates. I won't do it here on CG because I have too many friends here and I don't want them to see my Mr. Hyde.> Well I guess I forgot that promise. OK I'll take my deadly keyboard to other forums and see what happens. I have some interesting ones on YouTube. |
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| Apr-29-14 | | Jim Bartle: This is great. Robinson Cano practices getting booed on his return to New York: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0b9rOj... |
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| Apr-29-14 | | technical draw: Cano had a whooping 10 year $240,000,000 contract with Seattle. Amazing. |
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Apr-29-14
 | | Phony Benoni: Seattle spent last year being propped up by the Astros, and this year seems no different. Cano is hitting .301, nobody else is above .250, and the team batting average is .224. Methinks this may be a case where the Spend Big on One Superstar Theory isn't going to work. |
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| Apr-30-14 | | playground player: <Esteemed Colleagues> Re Don Sterling: Am I the only one troubled by the possibility that now you can be "punished" severely without having broken any law? I mean, it's not against the law to be a racist, is it? "Ooh, ooh! He's defending racism!" No, I'm not. I'm defending the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which says, <"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, <<or property>>, without due process of law">. You might perhaps argue that the NBA can do what the government can't; but if that's the case, American citizenship wouldn't seem to mean much. Really, this case is very troubling. Are we now in the business of criminalizing attitudes, opinions, and beliefs? And that without passing any legislation? I think the answer is yes--at least, all attitudes, opinions, and beliefs that the Establishment finds objectionable. If Mr. Sterling had only been wise enough to hate conservatives or Christians, no one would have said a word against him. |
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| Apr-30-14 | | Jim Bartle: We`ve been discussing that on the Rogoff and Jeremy Lim pages. Seems to me he shouldn't receive such a severe punishment based on a single tape recording in his home. On the other hand, there's a difference between "free speech" and "consequence-free speech." It is not the government which is banning him from participating in the league. It is the league itself, which has rules Sterling agreed to when he joined the league. Also, it was not just that he was racist, but that he was denigrating his own most important employees (the players), the people who make him all the money for the team. |
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| Apr-30-14 | | Jim Bartle: Oh man, Jesse Jackson was at the Clippers game last night, chatting with Doc Rivers. Does he absolutely have to be present every single time there's a racial controversy? What does he have to do with this issue, except he wants to be in the photo? |
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| Apr-30-14 | | Jim Bartle: <Especially because I'm sure the Clippers adm's would force him out, after that..One thing that would happen even without NBA punishment.> Sorry, <kk>, but you're wrong there. He owns the team. Nobody on the team can force him out. |
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| Apr-30-14 | | Jim Bartle: <I'm sure If he has good lawyers he might get this off...> He IS a good lawyer. This is just starting. |
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| Apr-30-14 | | Shams: <playground player> <You might perhaps argue that the NBA can do what the government can't; but if that's the case, American citizenship wouldn't seem to mean much.> That distinction means everything. Oy vey, I should have to point that out to a small-government conservative!? <Are we now in the business of criminalizing attitudes, opinions, and beliefs? And that without passing any legislation?> No. Sterling isn't facing any criminal consequences. His business partners don't want to do business with him anymore, that's all. If you think they should be forced to continue doing so I'd be curious to hear your argument. |
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| Apr-30-14 | | technical draw: The NBA is a product. The product has owners. If the majority of owners vote to remove Sterling and that is written in their by-laws then it's fine and dandy. But by doing so they make their product less attractive. Why? Because of their reactionary decision. no owner is safe in voicing an opinion that may offend someone. In today's USA every other day someone apologizes for something that someone or a group find offensive. The USA is becoming a silly country. |
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Apr-30-14
 | | WannaBe: I am offended by that, you better apologize. =)) |
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| Apr-30-14 | | YouRang: Another consequence in the Donald Sterling matter is the soiled reputation of the NAACP. The NAACP was all set to give Sterling their "Man of the Year" award (they already gave him the "Lifetime Achievement" award in 2009). All this, even though Sterling has been sued by the DOJ in 2006 for housing discrimination (against blacks people, among others), and by (former black Clipper's VP) Elgin Baylor for discriminatory statements and practices. Why does the NAACP give honors to Sterling despite long-standing racist attitudes toward blacks? It seems that the NAACP has become an organization that sells political "cover". If you're a wealthy racist who wants a good reputation, you can just wave around the awards you bought from the NAACP. |
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Apr-30-14
 | | Phony Benoni: Small sidebar: Sterling turned 80 the day after the story broke. Happy birthday. Free speech, like any other right, does not shield you from the consequences of your actions. You can't call somebody an ugly idiot and expect them to be your friend because you were exercising your right to free speech. Nor does the fact that other statements might have excited little or no controversy matter. Try telling that one to your mother to excuse some childish misbehavior. Nobody is excusing Sterling's statements. What controversy there is centers around two points: 1) The appropriateness of the source of his comments. 2) Whether the punishment fits the crime.
I share the unease about the tape. Is there any of us who couldn't have our lives adversely affected, if not ruined, by a provocateur with a recording device? We all have statements and actions in our past which, if revealed, would be ruinous. This society seems to delight in bringing down the High and Mighty; perhaps it makes us feel less Low and Powerless. Besides, when the story is broken by ann organization with the journalistic integrity and standards of TMZ, what can you do? But despite this unease, the recording is still there. That we may disapprove of the source doesn't alter the fact that the incident happened, nor does it excuse the statement. It might not hold up in a court of law, but we're not dealing with that here. Instead, we're dealing with a private organization with its own set of rules and regulations. As an owner, Sterling subscribed to those regulations, and must expect consequences if he violates them. If 75% of the owner want to kick him out, I don't see that he has any legal recourse. He'll sue, of course, but the issue will most likely be that he receives fair compensation for the team, not that he is allowed to retain it. Is the punishment fair? It could hardly have been anything else, given the firestorm of reaction, capped by advertisers pulling out. Once they made it clear they would have nothing more to do with Sterling, he was a goner. Maybe that's not fair, but that's how things operate in a world none of us inhabit, a completely different world with its own rules and standards. So, again, I beg--please save me from celebrity! And no more of this serious talk from me. Too hard! |
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| Apr-30-14 | | technical draw: USA=The new Detroit. |
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| Apr-30-14 | | technical draw: <nor does it excuse the statement"> A person cannot state his preferences now? Must he seek prior approval? And who decides to approve or disapprove a statement? |
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Apr-30-14
 | | Phony Benoni: Within society, an individual's right cannot be absolute, for they will inevitably conflict with another person's rights. My right to swing my arm around ends where your nose begins. , You can say whatever you want, but you must recognize that there may be consequences and you cannot expect to evade these by claiming freedom so speech. Yes, this constitutes a practical abridgment of your rights, but society cannot function without such abridgments, whether imposed from within or without. Back when the Constitution was written, Sterling's remarks would have excited no comment; indeed, I suspect most of the Founding Fathers would have agreed with them. Our society likes to think it has progressed since then (which is arguable), but the fact is that it has changed, and that Sterling chose the worst possible atmosphere to make remarks which could be interpreted as racist. Free speech may mean he had the right to make them, but it also confers the right to refuse to associate with him as a result of them. |
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Apr-30-14
 | | perfidious: <Jim Bartle: Oh man, Jesse Jackson was at the Clippers game last night, chatting with Doc Rivers. Does he absolutely have to be present every single time there's a racial controversy?> If not Jackson, it has been Sharpton or Farrakhan, plying their trade. |
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Apr-30-14
 | | perfidious: <td: In today's USA every other day someone apologizes for something that someone or a group find offensive. The USA is becoming a silly country.> Political correctness taken a step too far.
While I have no wish to return to the days when racist, homophobic and other negative views were routinely expressed, there is no need for everyone to seemingly apologise for their very existence. That way lies moral cowardice. The world needs people with strong convictions. <Jim: (Sterling) IS a good lawyer. This is just starting.> This is, regrettably, only too true. |
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| May-01-14 | | playground player: <Shams> No criminal consequences? I'd say a $2.5 million fine is a pretty big consequence, and a mighty severe punishment--especially to be levied against someone who hasn't broken any law. If you can be punished that severely without breaking a law, and without due process of law... then I don't think we have a rule of law. It's true that sports leagues have always imposed sanctions on owners or players, when the league saw fit. Leo Durocher, Marge Shott, Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich--Commissioner Bowie Kuhn suspended them for wife-swapping: remember that?--come to mind. What NBA rules did Sterling break? I'd like to know that. I find it troubling, the orgy of back-slapping engaged in by the nooze media. Although I find I usually differ with most of my <Esteemed Colleagues> on most issues, I must say that the commentary on this page, on this issue, is a lot fairer and more temperate and thoughtful than I've been seeing elsewhere. |
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| May-01-14 | | Jim Bartle: The fine is not a criminal consequence, which is what <shams> wrote. I do think the punishment is far too severe, <if> the only evidence is this latest tape recording. If his entire history is taken into consideration, then it's defensible. Once again, if he had said these things in a public forum or while carrying out his duties with the team, the punishment would be fair. But not for an informal conversation in his home. On the other hand...I'm sure the NBA has lawyered this to death, and they hired a well-known NY law firm for advice. I think the league will be on solid legal grounds, whether the action is right or wrong. |
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| May-01-14 | | Jim Bartle: <pb> Here's another defensive play you've never seen before, an outfielder a ball off the wall behind his back: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7ykQ... |
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| May-01-14 | | playground player: <Jim Bartle> Let's see him do it again! |
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May-01-14
 | | Phony Benoni: <JB> I think an outfielder could do that with enough practice with the caroms off the wall. And it allows him to make the throw back to the infield without spinning around. But I wouldn't trust anyone but a Yastrzemski. |
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| May-01-14 | | kellmano: Here's the cricket version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMA3...
If you catch the ball while touching the floor outside the rope it is a six rather than out. |
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