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Jul-14-16
 | | saffuna: ESPN is coming out with its best ten at each position: Leftfield: Williams, Barry Bonds, Henderson, Rose, Yastrzemski, Manny Ramirez, Joe Jackson, Raines, Stargell, Simmons. When I was a kid my father always counted Simmons as one of the greatest, but he thought almost all the best players came from the 20s and 30s. Stan Musial isn't listed at any of the outfield postions, so I assume he's rated at first base. I would say leftfield is where he should be, and at #3. Really tough to rate the guys before 1920, such as Jackson. His lifetime .356 must be inflated because he never had a decline period, "retired" while still at his peak. |
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Jul-14-16
 | | saffuna: Centerfield ranking: Mays, Mantle, Cobb, Griffey Jr., DiMaggio, Trout, Speaker, Cool Papa Bell, Snider, Oscar Charleston. If it's hard to rank the pre-1920s players, it's impossible to rank the Negro League players accurately. Bill James had Oscar Charleston something like #7 among all players, but I don't know how he could know that. Speaker #7? I have never seen him below #5. Trout's ranking is really high, considering he's only in his fifth full year. If he keeps it up he would deserve the spot. |
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Jul-14-16
 | | saffuna: 6-10 on second base is Alomar, Eddie Collins, Sandberg, Gehreringer, Cano. My ultradifficult picks for the first five: Morgan, Hornsby, Robinson, Frisch, Lajoie or Carew. Carew is probablyl listed at first base. |
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Jul-14-16
 | | saffuna: 6-10 at third base, not as strong a position as others: Boggs, , Molitor, Beltre,
Edgar Martines, Santo.
Predictions for first five: Schmidt, Mathews, Rodriguez, Robinson, Brett. |
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Jul-14-16
 | | saffuna: Nope. A-Rod is ranked as a shortstop, #2. In the top five is Chipper Jones, which was a surprise for me. |
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Jul-15-16
 | | WannaBe: Ahhhh, we have baseball back today, maybe it will be a piece of solace in an otherwise crazy week in the world. |
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Jul-15-16
 | | saffuna: Now I have issues! ESPN's top ten righthanded pitchers: Walter Johnson, Pedro, Maddux, Cy Young, Clemens, Gibson, Mathewson, Seaver, Paige, Feller. First of all, how can they know how good Paige was? He may have been the best of all, maybe not. Cy Young? Again, who knows?
Clemens, Gibson, Pedro all clearly better than Seaver? I don't think so. Seaver was great, and great for many years. But what really bothers me is, Gibson #6, and Marichal not on the list? I mean, ??? Gibson and Marichal were contemporaries. Their first great years were in 1963, and last great years in 1970 and 1969. Marichal's ERAs ranged from 2.13 to 2.76. Gibson's ranged from 1.12 to 3.39. Gibson won 156 games in eight years, Marichal won 154 in seven years. Marichal was 238-141 in his career, Gibson 251-174. They're about even. Bill James said Marichal clearly had a better career. Certainly Gibson can't be #6 and Marichal AWOL. Why the difference? Gibson had three great World Series. Marichal was only in one, and got injured and pitched little in that one. It's not enough to spring Gibson way out in front of Marichal. With the World Series games and 1968 there's a myth around Gibson as unhittable throughout his career. But his record shows he wasn't, and that he wasn't better than Marichal. |
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Jul-15-16
 | | saffuna: Also not on the list: Jim Palmer, 8 20-win seasons, 2.86 career ERA. He's got to be close, and he's not that far behind Seaver. Others left out: Grover Cleveland Alexander, Dizzy Dean. |
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Jul-15-16
 | | Phony Benoni: It's un-PC and perhaps an injustice, but I agree that Negro League players can't be meaningfully compared to MLB players. You can't use stats for one group and nostalgia for the other. Apparently Paige was as good as his reputation, at least from accounts of games where he faced barnstorming major leaguers. but it's still not the same. They really lost me with Stargell in left field. Apparently, this team is so potent offensively, and the pitchers so good, that they don't have to play defense. And I don't care if his career was shortened by injury. Koufax is on my list. Period. |
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Jul-15-16
 | | Penguincw: BTW: What do you guys think of this site?
https://www.whatifsports.com/locker/
What this site is, is that it allows you to pit one historical team (ex. 1927 NYY) vs. another (ex. 1975 CIN). You can change the starting pitchers, lineups and ballpark. I used it whenever I want to see how historical teams would've fared against one another, or perhaps if a recent playoff series could've/should've turned out differently. I mean, do you guys think it's accurate or whatever. |
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Jul-15-16
 | | saffuna: I'm fine with Koufax at the top of the lefthand pitchers. But if he had five great years, why isn't Dizzy Dean on the righthanders list with five similar years. OK, four really. Left Grove at #8 is a joke, as is Kershaw at #3. Maybe someday but not yet. |
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Jul-16-16
 | | saffuna: Big complaint on ESPN rightfield ranking:
#3 Clemente
#4 Robinson
Robinson's hitting stats are clearly, absolutely, unquestionably better than Clemente's. You really have to rate Clemente a vastly better defensive player than Robinson, and Robinson was plenty good out there. No way is Clemente better, and people in general didn't think Clemente was better than Robinson when they were playing. |
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Jul-16-16
 | | WannaBe: Just as an FYI tonight's SFG/SD game, with MadBum pitching, SFG -210 Now, it's 4-1 Padres. |
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Jul-16-16
 | | Phony Benoni: I don't see how you can include Trout vie good years, but exclude Koufax because he had only five truly great ones. Dizzy Dean has a similar argument, but a really short career like that has to be transcendent. He wasn't quite there. |
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Jul-16-16
 | | saffuna: Of course there are many more good righthanders than lefthanders, so we end up with Glavine and Bumgarner at the bottom of the lefthanders list, while Palmer, Marichal, Ryan, Alexander, etc. don't make the righthander list at all. When a player's career is over, and had just a few great years, it's still possible to judge. I just find it hard when a player like Trout or Bumgarner has only been outstanding for five years or so. Kershaw is a little different, now in his seventh consecutive brilliant year. |
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Jul-16-16
 | | Penguincw: < WannaBe: Just as an FYI tonight's SFG/SD game, with MadBum pitching > Interesting (and possibly smart) decision by Bochy to pitch MadBum on back-to-back games. It didn't pay off, but it did for pitchers like Carrasco (CLE), as he lost on Sunday, but won on Friday. I remember in 2011, there was this pitcher that started <3> consecutive games. I believe one was right before the ASG, but then on the following Friday, he got <ejected> in the 1st inning after dropping a ball on a 3-1 groundout attempt, throwing the ball on the ground in frustration, and getting tossed. :P He got to start the next game too, not sure how he fared. |
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Jul-16-16
 | | WannaBe: At Reno, need DET & OAK to win by at least 2 runs. (I bet on the reverse run line) KC is terrible on the road...
Also 3 team parlay, OAK, CLE, ChiSox. Just need to win. All three teams. Piece of cake!! =)) |
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Jul-16-16
 | | saffuna: <Interesting (and possibly smart) decision by Bochy to pitch MadBum on back-to-back games.> In the 80s Whitey Herzog figured out that Joaquin Andujar wanted to pitch on <his day> every time, no matter days off or rainouts, and that's what made him crazy. So whenever Herzog took him out of a game he would tell Andujar you were great, you'll be back here in four days. And that tended to keep him under control. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | keypusher: Hey, Jim, it's your own business of course, but why did you change your user name? |
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Jul-17-16
 | | saffuna: <kp> Just embarrassed about the massive total of posts, nothing more. I announced the change with the very first post. The attempts by one person to say I was trying to deceive are ridiculous. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | chancho: What is a Saffuna anyway?
Why not MachuJimbu or some other thing?
:-) |
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Jul-17-16
 | | saffuna: It's a lake I like.
http://ipg.epfl.ch/~seeger/lapmalma... The recession of the glaciers since I first went there is brutal. The ice used to come all the way down to the upper lake (behind the moraine). |
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Jul-17-16
 | | chancho: Thanks for the explanation. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | WannaBe: Yesterday, we had a balk-off SF/SD, today, we have a pass-ball-off MIL/CIN. Go fig. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | WannaBe: Just found out DET won 4-2 on a walk-off 2 run HR. Whoever hit that is now my favourite Tigers player, that enable me to recover a little money. (I took Detroit again, today, giving up 1.5 runs) |
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