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Jul-17-16
 | | Phony Benoni: Oh, darn. And here I thought I had made a new friend. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | WannaBe: Sumthin' funny going on in San Diego. It's not funny is you are SFG fan. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | WannaBe: Never mind, SD still have not pitch'd a no-no. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | keypusher: <saffuna>. Ok. Guess I am immune to embarrassment. :-) |
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Jul-17-16
 | | saffuna: Different order of magnitude. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | Penguincw: And the Nats fall to 0-2 in 18 inning games (while the franchise is in Washington). The other loss was G2 of the 2014 NLDS. < WannaBe: Yesterday, we had a balk-off SF/SD, today, we have a pass-ball-off MIL/CIN. Go fig. > What kind of walk-off ____ has NOT happened yet? There have been walk-off 1B, 2B, 3B, HR, and BB, HBP, E, SF, passed balls, wild pitch. I'm sure there's also walk-off balks, sacrifice bunt and walk-off steal. I tried thinking of a walk-off that has never happened before. There has been walk off obstruction, if you count G3 of the 2013 WS. I thought walk-off catcher's interference hasn't happened before, but apparently it has: http://www.hardballtimes.com/15-wor.... Looking at all the other interferences, walk-off umpire or spectator interference is possible, though I'm not sure that has happened before. Walk-off infield fly rule is also possible, but it'll require an error - rather on a fielder, or the baserunner. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | saffuna: I doubt there's been a walk-off intentional pass.
How can there be a walk-off double or triple? Maybe a ground rule double. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | Penguincw: < saffuna: I doubt there's been a walk-off intentional pass. > Yeah, good point.
< How can there be a walk-off double or triple? Maybe a ground rule double. > Say, winning run on 1st with 1 out in both cases. For walk-off 2B, just hit the ball into the gap or whatever, and reach 2B before the run scores, and it's a walk-off 2B. Same thing for triple, but you have to get to third before the run scores. Pretty useful to go to second or third base in case the runner is thrown out at the plate. Since there would then only be 2 outs, there's still another runner in scoring position. I think you get what I'm trying to say. |
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Jul-17-16
 | | saffuna: <Say, winning run on 1st with 1 out in both cases. For walk-off 2B, just hit the ball into the gap or whatever, and reach 2B before the run scores, and it's a walk-off 2B.> I did not know that. I thought it was either a home run, or a single. But that makes sense. There was all sorts of confusion at the last inning of Harvey Haddix's 12-inning perfect game in 1959, Joe Adcock hit a home run with two on, but passed Henry Aaron between second and third, and was called out. Aaron thought the ball had hit the fence and so it didn't matter. I think Adcock was credited with a double, so there's a walk-off double right there. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | Penguincw: < saffuna: ... There was all sorts of confusion at the last inning of Harvey Haddix's 12-inning perfect game in 1959, Joe Adcock hit a home run with two on, but passed Henry Aaron between second and third, and was called out. Aaron thought the ball had hit the fence and so it didn't matter. > What are MLB's rules for this though? Obviously the winning run has to score, and I imagine the batter has to at least hit first. But it seems that if a runner misses a base, even on an outside the park home run, he is out, on an appeal (assuming he didn't quickly go back and step on it). Must be pretty difficult to step on the plate if one hits a walk-off homerun and got teammates surrounding and mobbing you. Speaking of which, there's another kind of walk-off: fielder's choice/force out. So say runners on the corners (winning run at 3rd), 1 out. Ground ball, throw to 2nd, runner there out, throw to 1st is late, runner on 3rd scores. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | saffuna: Here's a description of the play:
<Double to CF (Deep CF-RF); Mantilla Scores/unER; Aaron to 3B; Adcock out at 2B/SS; Joe Adcock hit the ball into the right center stands for a
homerun, but was declared out for passing Henry Aaron between 2B and 3B; Aaron thought the ball had landed inside the fence; 1B Umpire Frank
Dascoli ruled the final score was 2 to 0 but was overruled by NL President Warren Giles who said that since it was only a double, then only one
run was needed to win the game;>
With less than two out the batter wouldn't even have to touch first. With two out the batter would need to touch first, unless the ball was hit out of the park. In theory at least. Once the teams leave the field, I doubt it matters. Merkle's Boner occurred when Merkle didn't touch second base in a key game in 1908. People were running all over the field, I guess, Merkle didn't run from first to second, and later he was called out. http://www.baseball-reference.com/b... |
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Jul-18-16
 | | WannaBe: Walk-off Triple would be virtually impossible, unless I'm the (winning) runner on first... Walk-off IBB would be impossible. =) |
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Jul-18-16
 | | OhioChessFan: <Say, winning run on 1st with 1 out in both cases. For walk-off 2B, just hit the ball into the gap or whatever, and reach 2B before the run scores, and it's a walk-off 2B.
Same thing for triple, but you have to get to third before the run scores.> I don't recall a scoring rule, whereby the batter would have to get to 2nd/3rd before the runner scored to be credited with a double/triple. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | OhioChessFan: <saff: With two out the batter would need to touch first, unless the ball was hit out of the park.> I don't recall a scoring rule where that's the case. I am pretty sure he has to touch first. I need to look a few of these things up. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | OhioChessFan: <Wannabe: <Walk-off IBB would be impossible. =) > 2020 season, new rule in effect to qualify for playoffs, run differential is a tiebreaker. Team in field is 2 runs up on team at bat for last playoff spot. Bases loaded, team in field won't chance a hit scoring 2 or more runs, so they intentionally walk the batter to lose the game, but only by 1 run, ergo, qualify for playoffs. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | saffuna: <I don't recall a scoring rule where that's the case. I am pretty sure he has to touch first. I need to look a few of these things up.> You are probably right. I was thinking, with less than two out, the run would count even if the batter is thrown out at first. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | saffuna: <2020 season, new rule in effect to qualify for playoffs, run differential is a tiebreaker. Team in field is 2 runs up on team at bat for last playoff spot.> I did not know that either. I really dislike that rule. As far as I am concerned, you win or you lose, one run or ten runs. It also gives an advantage to a team with a great offense (wins and loses 8.4) over the team with great pitching (wins or loses 3-2). |
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Jul-18-16
 | | OhioChessFan: Don't worry, I was just inventing a hypothetical where a team would issue an IBB to lose a game. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | saffuna: No, I think it's a really bad rule. It will probably never be used, but still... |
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Jul-18-16
 | | Phony Benoni: The National Hockey League used to have total goals scored as an early tiebreaker. Used to.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969%... I saw the game where Roger Crozier faced 65 shots and gave up nine goals. He was magnificent. Seriously. The Rangers should have scored 20. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | saffuna: Total goals are a major tiebreaker in soccer, and it's just accepted. When there are home and away matches in tournaments such as the Champions League, it's not really two games but one long game with a week-long halftime. Years ago the NFL had point difference as a tiebreaker; maybe they still do. In any case one year (in the first game after a strike, so maybe 1982) the 49ers were winning easily with 30 seconds left and the ball. Montana faked the kneel-down, and tried to throw a bomb for a TD. It failed, but of course the other team was upset. Walsh's excuse? "It's a short season, point difference may matter." |
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Jul-18-16
 | | WannaBe: <saffuna> Total pts (differential) is still used by NFL, but it's like the 6th tie-breaker. Two Clubs:
•Head-to-head, if applicable.
•Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference. •Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four. •Strength of victory.
•Strength of schedule.
•Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | WannaBe: 11 games from Sunday ended with run differential of 2 or more. I need to start keep track of this in case I want to (keep) dabbling in this (reverse) run line wagering. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | saffuna: <wannabe> I think it was similar in 1982. Walsh was just making a lame excuse. |
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Jul-18-16
 | | Penguincw: < OCF: [Walk off 2B,3B, blah blah blah] I don't recall a scoring rule, whereby the batter would have to get to 2nd/3rd before the runner scored to be credited with a double/triple. > Well I imagine it has to be the case, but maybe the rule actually is if the runner would've made it to 2nd/3rd/whatever anyway (i.e. if there were no runners on), then that batter is credited with that base. Of course, once the winning run has scored, and the batter already touched at least first base, there's no point in advancing further. Walk-off 2B and 3B pretty much have to come with winning run on 1st. ---
I'm surprised NBA has point differential tiebreak too, sort of: < TIEBREAKER BASIS WHEN TWO TEAMS ARE TIED:(1A) Better winning percentage in games against each other ...
(7A) Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents (point differential). > http://www.nba.com/standings/team_r... NHL also has it. Their tiebreaks between tied teams are 1) Fewer games played 2) Greater number of games won in regulation+overtime (so not shootout) 3) Better H2H record (basically, but it's more complicated than that) 4) Larger Goal differential https://www.nhl.com/standings
Hooray for baseball for not having it. But imagine if in the past, baseball had installed it, and that MLB's first tiebreaker was run differential. The most recent time a playoff team had an equal record with another team was in 2014, as PIT and SF both were 88-74. PIT was the home team because they went 4-2 vs. SF that year. But SF had a run differential of +51 (665 RF - 614 RA), but so did PIT (682 RF - 631 RA = +51). Now what? And remember, MadBum and the Giants ended up defeating the Pirates and 3 other teams to win the World Series that year. In 2013, there was Game 163 after TEX and TB both finished 91-61. What happened was that TB won that game in TEX, then the Wild-Card game, before losing to eventual World Series Champions in the ALDS. Run differentials: TEX +94, TB +54. If TEX had advanced straight to the Wild Card game in CLE, one of those teams would've advanced, and faced the Red Sox, and they might've eliminated BOS. Remember, TB had to use <2> pitchers to get to that point, whereas the winner would've only used <1>. |
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