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Johannes Zukertort vs Joseph Henry Blackburne
"Zukertort's Immortal" (game of the day May-27-07)
London (1883)  ·  English Opening: Agincourt Defense (A13)  ·  1-0
To move:
Last move:

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Given 98 times; par: 67 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 7 OF 7 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-02-11  LIFE Master AJ: And I want you to notice one other thing ... before you made an issue of things, I PURPOSELY avoided talking about (my) web pages, (my) discovery, etc.

I was trying to take the low road, but some people try to make a flame war out of a bucket of water.

So I am asking you - please stop. Otherwise, I will continue to report your behavior to the admins of this site ... sooner or later, they may grow tired of all this silliness ... and do something drastic.

Let it die!!! Stop acting like a dog-gone chimp ... and conduct yourself like a semi-reasonable adult.

Nov-02-11  LIFE Master AJ: You are also - with your <<repeated attacks<<<<<>>>>>>>> (and constant insults) ... in clear violation of the third posting guideline. (In fact, about half the time, you are breaking all of them).

(All in bold.) <<Please observe our posting guidelines.>>

#1.) No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.

#2.) No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.

# 3.) No personal attacks against other users.

# 4.) Nothing in violation of United States Law.

Nov-03-11  LIFE Master AJ: How about a simple rule for the future? (Just stick to chess. Comment on the game ... and nothing else.)
Nov-03-11  JoergWalter: Zukertort's continuation was convincing enough to make Blackburne resign 2 moves later.

It is quite common that players missed possible shortcuts or a mate in fewer moves in the old days. Today, it is easy to find mates in 6, 8 or ten moves in old games which the players or annotators may not have seen or not bothered about.


Charousek vs B Richter, 1897

<JoergWalter: Fritz is insisting that 29.Qxg5 is mate in 6. the others: if 32.Qg6+ instead of Qe5+ then mate in 1. And if 33.Nd6+ is replaced by Qg7+ it is mate in 2. quite a few oversights for a great attacker like Charousek.>

Paulsen vs Morphy, 1857

So nothing to brag about imo.

Nov-03-11  JoergWalter: <LIFE Master AJ: How about a simple rule for the future? (Just stick to chess. Comment on the game ... and nothing else.)>

It is not really clear what you mean by <Just stick to chess> as you are claiming faults (without proof) in the work of others.


<15. Qe2!?, (Maybe - '!')
Is this the most aggressive here?

Kasparov questions this ... but his analysis is based on old analysis that was done by Igor Zaitzev. (But I have punched holes in that work.)>

Now, is this attacking Kasparov? Are you asking others not to question your work at the same time?

Do not forget "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". Or is it along the arrogant line "quod licet iovi non licet bovi"?

Nov-03-11  LIFE Master AJ: I am pretty perceptive.

If you honestly ask a question - I shall answer it. However, any attempt at sarcasm or attempts to drag me down or start an argument are properly and correctly ignored.

Of course, since you worked so hard on getting on the "iggy list," one must assume that you wanted to be there, and do not care if I miss something ... ... ...

Nov-03-11  JoergWalter: I know you are dying to read the posts of those decent fellows on your "iggy list". What an "Ignore" is it that is defying its purpose?
Nov-03-11  JoergWalter: <brankat:Steinitz's overall score against Zukertort is a convincing +20 -9 =10. (according to this database).

I suppose Dr.Lasker was trying to explain such a result, and he thought he found the answer in a different approach to the game, different school of thought. After all, Steinitz's turned out to be superior to the preceding one, and enabled the progress of the game on new foundations. Or was Steinitz that much a superior player? Also, Lasker himself was a disciple of Steinitz.>

Lasker wrote in his "Lehrbuch des Schachspiels" (my free translation):

<Up to here Zukertort defended and developed his pieces well. Now he has to make a plan. He has to protect his weak points and play for a draw. But that is something he doesn't understand. ... When Zukertort has a plan he is at least equal to Steinitz. But a kingside attack is an old plan he didn't have to find over the board and Zukertort is a master in its execution. However, Steinitz found good plans at the board.>

Nov-03-11  JoergWalter: <brankat>

Reti in "Masters of the Chessboard" on Steinitz:

<Steinitz had rivals like Anderssen and later Blackburne and Zuckertort, all of whom probably surpassed him in natural ability for chess. His general theory was so profound, however, that he defeated all of them in their matches with him>

Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <JoergWalter: <brankat>

Reti in "Masters of the Chessboard" on Steinitz:

<Steinitz had rivals like Anderssen and later Blackburne and Zuckertort, all of whom probably surpassed him in natural ability for chess. His general theory was so profound, however, that he defeated all of them in their matches with him>>

Silly book.

Nov-03-11  JoergWalter: <keypusher>
well, 80% useless imo. but better than Reti's "New ideas in chess" which is a 100% flop.
Premium Chessgames Member
  nimh: <well, 80% useless imo. but better than Reti's "New ideas in chess" which is a 100% flop.>

What's wrong with that book?

Nov-04-11  JoergWalter: <nimh> Reti's "New ideas in chess" is a compilation of articles by Reti which was published in 1922. Mainly, a reply to Franz Gutmayer. "New ideas" meant new to Gutmayer.
Comments on games are very superficial and that the famous consultation game Fähndrich/Kaufmann vs Capablanca/Reti is such a revelation concerning opening principles was already doubted back then. I really do not see the purpose for this book and why it should be recommended as "classical reading".

If this book was not printed would we miss anything?

Nov-04-11  LIFE Master AJ: Most chess minds think of Reti's books as landmarks ... and I happen to agree with that.
Nov-04-11  JoergWalter: <LIFE Master AJ: Most chess minds think of Reti's books as landmarks ... and I happen to agree with that.>

who cares about your agreement? Reti?
For Reti you would have been another example of Franz Gutmayer.

Nov-04-11  JoergWalter: <LIFE Master AJ: Most chess minds think of Reti's books as landmarks>

I do not think you own one and if so, that you have read it.

Nov-04-11  LIFE Master AJ: "Stupid is as stupid does ..."
- Forrest Gump
Nov-04-11  JoergWalter: <LIFE Master AJ: "Stupid is as stupid does ..." - Forrest Gump>

So, we'll call you LIFE Master Dump?

Nov-07-11  JoergWalter: The earliest mention of 31...Rg8+ I found as of now is in:

Schachmagazin 64 no. 18 in 1992.
Remembering the 150th birthday of Zukertort by Armin Heintze.

Nov-08-11  JoergWalter: <LIFE Master AJ: <patzer2> Seems someone borrowed an improvement ... and is trying to claim it for their own.>

Sue him.

Nov-09-11  Llawdogg: Wow! This is an amazing game.
Nov-09-11  Llawdogg: 28 Qb4! and 29 Rf8+! were two consecutive decoy moves! Amazing!
Jan-19-12  Archerforthelord: wow, this is the first flame war ive ever seen on a website for chess O.O
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: This game was in a fine balance until Black's 22nd move:

click for larger view

At this point, Blackburne played 22...Nxf6??, and then Zukertort found the winning line, matching Houdini's analysis exactly for the following moves: (4.68) (26 ply) 22...Nxf6?? 23.f5! Ne4 24.Bxe4! dxe4 25.fxg6!. On his 25th move, Blackburne made a very good try with 25...Rc2, and Zukertort had to find several more stunning moves to win this masterpiece.

Correct at move 22, with a nearly equal evaluation was 22...Qxf6!. Houdini indicates that after 22...Qxf6!, White has a choice of 29 moves that allow White an equal or slightly better position. Here is one of Houdini's top choices: (.18) (26 ply) 22...Qxf6! 23.Ree1 Ng7 24.Rc1 Rxc1 25.Rxc1.

The only commentator that I have found to make note of 22...Qxf6!, was Zukertort himself! In the tournament book, he stated that Black should have retaken with the queen, 22...Qxf6 23.Qe1 Ng7 24.g4, but in his opinion, Black even then would have a difficult game, with White having unlimited time to force a probably irresistible attack.

In the variation given by Zukertort, 22...Qxf6! 23.Qe1 Ng7! 24.g4, Houdini indicates White has a slightly better position: (.21) (26 ply) 24...Bc6 25.Rg3 Rf7 26.f5 gxf5 27.gxf5. As noted by Zukertort, White appears to have a good opportunity for an attack after 22...Qxf6!, but it was clearly Black's best move.

Apr-06-14  Howard: This game was the second one in Reinfield's Chess Masters On Winning Chess.

That's how I first came across it.

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