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Robert James Fischer vs Vasily Smyslov
"Our Man in Havana" (game of the day Feb-09-2017)
Havana (1965), Havana CUB, rd 2, Aug-26
Spanish Game: Morphy Defense. Anderssen Variation (C77)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: Petrosianic: <Richard Taylor>: <Fischer was a great man with tragic flaws who was persecuted by his own country>

In what way?

Larry Evans made that statement. I quoted him from a documentary.

Evans was technically wrong. Fischer mainly thought he was being persecuted. He and his mother, for different reasons, were under observation by the CIA and the FBI.

Perhaps Evans was taking the point that the US laid it on too thick when Fischer got ecstatic seeing the Towers come down in 2001. Fischer went overboard but indeed the 'what goes around comes around' has a resonance. It is not a completely wrong view. Also they could have dropped the charges against him. His "crime" of playing Yugoslavia was relatively trivial.

It was clear to everyone that he was not well.

In a deep way he was persecuted...but perhaps not by the USA a rather abstract thing to be persecuted by.

Clearly by 1972 Fischer realised that in many ways his life had been a failure. Winning the World Championship meant very little to him. It is clear watching docus and the history.

Yes, the loss of his personal memories, analysis and games would have been deeply upsetting and the circumstances of that are not clear. He blamed the FBI I think.

But it wasn't long before he had rejected the US. So you had a World Chess Champion who hated Jews and the United States in equal measure. And, I think, subconsciously, he now hated chess. Evans missed that. In the movie (not the docu) it has Lombardy saying that he feared winning.

His deep fear, paradoxically, was that he would win. Then there would be nothing...And that is really what happened.

Feb-22-18  Morlaf: <RookFile: <Morlaf: well from the original set up, white has a tiny advantage. why does not black always resign..... > Because there is a difference between a tiny advantage and being lost.>

I hear an awful lot of "being lost". but my analysis end up with the following position:


click for larger view

hich I can see in my mind's eye when analysing and of course Fischer and Smyslov can also see. But it is far from clear cut right now.....

Feb-22-18  ughaibu: For the third and final time: PRESUMABLY IT WAS RESIGNED DURING THE ADJOURNMENT!!!
Feb-22-18  Morlaf: I'm glad it is the "final" time you are telling us this, ughaibu.....
Feb-22-18  ughaibu: <I'm glad it is the "final" time you are telling us this, ughaibu>

I'm telling you singular, as you seem to be the only poster incapable of wrapping your head round it.

Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: If its truly "presumably", then its merely (1) "conjecture" at best, or (2) an unsubstantiated opinion at worst.

Conclusion: Either (1) or (2) means there is no necessity for repeating the theoretical premise.

*****

Feb-22-18  ughaibu: <Conclusion: Either (1) or (2) means there is no necessity for repeating the theoretical premise.>

1. your conclusion isn't entailed by your premises.

2. the observation, based on the move number, will not be repeated by me, so your "conclusion" is a non sequitur.

Feb-22-18  Morlaf: thank you, morfishine. So lets not reduce this to a trolling session and if you agree with my diagram can you please: a) from this position with black to move show me the FORCED line for white to win and then b) tell me why Smyslov resigned?
Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Morlaf>

Fischer's line in 60MG, which zugzwangovich posted on the first page, runs:

< 44.Bc1 Nd4 45.Nd7+ Ke7 (rather than your Kf7) 46.Nxb8 (rather than 46.Rxb8) Nb3 47.Rb7+ Kd8 48.Rd7+ Ke8 49.Rxg7>

after which 49....Rxb8 50.Rg8+ and White wins up the exchange or 49....Rc4 50.Bxh6 c2 51.b5 c1/Q 52.Bxc1 Rxc1+ 53.Kg2 and White has five pawns against two doubled pawns. If instead of advancing his pawn immediately Black plays 50....Rxb4, then 51.Nc6 threatening the rook and also 52.Re7# wins on the spot.

Notice that if Black plays 45.Ke7, 46.Rxb8 actually loses: 46.Kxd7! 47.Rxc8 Kxc8 and Black will win Whites bishop. But against 45.Kf7, 46.Rxb8 is more than good enough: 46.Rxb8 47.Nxb8 Nb3 48. Be3 c2 49. Nc6 c1=Q+ 50. Bxc1 Nxc1 51.b5 Nd3 (51.Ke8 52.b6 Kd7 53.b7) 52.b6 Nc5 53.Nd8+ Ke8 54.b7 Na6 55.Nc6 and White wins the knight.

Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <HeMateMe: in a slightly truncated photo, Korchnoi is in the background (partially obscured) while Fischer is emphatic about something with Castro:>

The caption reads "Fischer never hid his admiration for Castro, even in the hardest days of the American blockade." Never heard of Fischer expressing admiration for Castro. He wasn't exactly communism's biggest fan.

Feb-22-18  ughaibu: <He wasn't exactly communism's biggest fan.>

He wasn't exactly consistent about anything, was he?

Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <morlaf>

The position in your diagram is also a straightforward win for White:

1....Nb3 2.Nc6 Nc5 3.Nd8+ Ke8 4.b7 Nd7 5.Nc6

1....Ke8 2.Nc6 Kd7 3.b7 Kc7 4.b8/Q+

Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: This game was included in Frank Brady's book, 'Profile of a Prodigy'. Brady tells of this game being adjourned in the evening, and the next morning a telephone call was received from Havana. Symslov was resigning, but he wanted to personally congratulate Fischer over the phone. Brady notes that Smyslov's resignation was later confirmed by teletype.
Feb-22-18  Morlaf: thank you keypusher and thank you Pawn and Two.
Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <Pawn and Two: This game was included in Frank Brady's book, 'Profile of a Prodigy'. Brady tells of this game being adjourned in the evening, and the next morning a telephone call was received from Havana. Symslov was resigning, but he wanted to personally congratulate Fischer over the phone. Brady notes that Smyslov's resignation was later confirmed by teletype.>

Frank Brady is a parasite and also an old man suffering from dementia.

Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: You Americans on here slavering at everything Frank Brady comes out with is an insult to Bobby.
Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <ughaibu> I like your postings over the years! I was just trying to be funny here. Keep up the great posting!
Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <morfishine: <ughaibu> I like your postings over the years! I was just trying to be funny here. Keep up the great posting!>

You are an idiot.

Feb-22-18  Petrosianic: When harrylol calls someone an idiot, does that mean they're even stupider than he is? Or does it mean they're a genius and he's made another of his many mistakes? I hope it's the second because the first possibility is too scary to contemplate.
Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: < harrylime: You Americans on here slavering at everything Frank Brady comes out with is an insult to Bobby.>

Well, in this case hes being quoted to establish that this game was indeed resigned after it was adjourned and Smyslov had lots of time to analyze. Isnt that OK?

<morlaf > Im sure you know this, but this game (like all Fischers games in this tournament) was played by telex, meaning the first session took seven hours instead of then-standard five. I believe this was a first-round game, so Smyslov did have an incentive not to waste time on the resumption of a hopeless ending, once he was convinced it was hopeless.

Feb-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi K.P.

It was a 2nd round game. Close enough.

Game Collection: Havana 1965

I think you are correct, why waste time and energy defending a lost ending v Fischer.

Smyslov got his own back by showing Kholmov a line to play v Fischer. Kholmov used it and won.

Fischer vs Kholmov, 1965

Feb-22-18  ughaibu: Morfishine: "I was just trying to be funny here."

I see, thanks for making that clear.

Feb-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <ughaibu: For the third and final time: PRESUMABLY IT WAS RESIGNED DURING THE ADJOURNMENT!!!>

When did who and it and what resign? The resigner or the resignee? When was it was it (or was it?); it was that was presumed -- it -- to have resigned?

Did it resign finally or finally resign?

Feb-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: There should, by the way, be a book for chess players on ways and means and methods of resigning...from the very gracious to coming back and machine gunning everyone which seems to be a popular pastime in the US just now....But in any case, to resign in adjournment or just after is, indeed done. Some shake hands etc, others storm off....once I swept all the pieces off the board and then stormed out telling all around me that they were all bastards...Not a method I recommend or practice all the time but it was good at the time. Done on an impulse wondering instantaneously if anyone else had ever done it and where? But then my reaction took over and all was done: pieces and coffee cups etc all over the table and the floor...
Feb-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <morfishine: If its truly "presumably", then its merely (1) "conjecture" at best, or (2) an unsubstantiated opinion at worst.

Conclusion: Either (1) or (2) means there is no necessity for repeating the theoretical premise.

***** >

True in as far as it goes. But because of various epistemological difficulties it is not possible to keep such a logical argument in such a form.

In my view it is possible also that (1) and (2) are both true or it is true that the presumed person resigned and did not resign during the adjournment session...this might be partly due to the well known "Problem of the Vodka (and the exclusive in between)" argument put forward by Lardic Woojtedennsteen and Roosvell et al...working with Dr Milosz Bottwinstein.

[Indeed it was suggested that it was Smyslov's penchant for swigging Vodka, plus his age at the time, a bit older than Fishy, that caused his downfall in this game rather than any cleverness by Bobby Fishy himself... who is now known to have been irremediably insane throughout his entire life.]

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