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|Oct-30-09|| ||Eyal: <So you say, and you may be right, but it's only fair to note that Spassky himself claimed he came up with Nb1 at the board. Gligoric said of this that "nobody believes him", but I think I do, mainly because the move really isn't that great, and only worked because Fischer had an off day.>|
Yeah, I forgot about that part in Gligoric's book (also that Spassky spent 30 minutes on Nb1) - I was going by "Russians vs. Fischer", where Bondarevsky is quoted as attributing the move to team home analysis. Btw, even if the move doesn't objectively deserve the "!!" it gets in some commentaries, I still think it was a very good practical idea, because it posed Fischer some serious problems to solve at the board, in a line where he usually outprepared his opponents and hardly faced any problems. At any rate, if Spassky himself came up with the move at the board it actually fits even better with the more general point I was trying to make about his decision to stick with 1.e4 from that game on - in the sense that he might have been encouraged by the feeling that he managed at last to outplay Fischer "on his own".
|Oct-30-09|| ||Petrosianic: It's hard to know who to believe. Is Bondarevsky telling the truth, or trying to brag about their home analysis? How long did Spassky take over the move? 30 minutes or something? If it was cooked up at home, he might not have been completely sold on it.|
Either way, I can see why Spassky played it. 3 points down, he needed to try the sharpest line he could find, and this was the sharpest one in Fischer's repertoire.
|Oct-30-09|| ||Marmot PFL: No way did Spassky just find that at the board. Fischer had already played the poisoned pawn so obviously Spassky's team would be working on it. They even avoided it in game 9.|
|Oct-30-09|| ||Petrosianic: I don't know, I could believe either story. In Game 9, Spassky was only 2 points down, coming off a howling blunder, and may have wanted an easy draw to recover his equilibrium. In Game 11 he was 3 points down and REALLY needing a win. So I could see him playing the Poisoned Pawn even without an improvement in mind.|
Maybe they suggested it to him beforehand (Hey, maybe Nb1 is worth a try), but he spent a long time at the board convincing himself it was playable. Some of the players who praised it the most didn't play it themselves when they had the chance a year or so later, so I don't know if I'd call it an "improvement". It certainly didn't deserve the shower of exclamation points annotators heaped on it at the time.
|Oct-30-09|| ||Zonszein: but why would Spassky lie about it?
he could have played it a move earlier I think
|Oct-30-09|| ||Petrosianic: Gligoric's implication was that Spassky was lying (though I don't think he'd have used that strong a word) because the move was just too good to have come up with at the board. I don't buy that argument, because it's really NOT that objectively good. Considering how long he took to play it (if I'm remembering right), I think that the <decision to play the move> was probably made at the board, though maybe Bondarevsky is also right in saying that the move had been at least discussed beforehand.|
|Oct-30-09|| ||Eyal: As for the time that Spassky spent on the move, it's pretty certain that it was 30 minutes - besides Gligoric mentioning it, the clock times of the match are documented (http://www.crackteam.org/2008/12/16...). But as was already mentioned, this fact in itself isn't conclusive one way or the other, especially since we know of cases during the match where Spassky reconsidered at length home analysis over the board - especially during game 4, where he ended by choosing 21...h5 over the home prep ...Rd8, something which caused a lot of bitterness between him and Geller.|
|Oct-30-09|| ||talisman: i think spassky found Nb1 at the board because of his previous move, before Nb1. it's a waiting move, and it certainly doesn't set up Nb1.|
|Oct-28-11|| ||newshutz: re the first post by <drunken knight>|
Why not 7.cxd6? Well, I have had this played against me, and the subsequent 8.dxe7, too. So, I have worked out lines against them.
9.bxc3 Qxc3+ (...Bxc3 10.Bd2)
10.Kf2! Nc6 (11.Qd8# threatened)
11.Rb1 and black is slightly better. White has freer development, but worse pawn structure; White has a more exposed King, but Black must waste time capturing the pawn on e7 with a piece to castle;
Other lines are worse for white.
|Oct-28-11|| ||talisman: looks like my 09 comment was meant for a different game...regarding this game how many of us would play bobby's 12th move?|
|Oct-28-11|| ||AnalyzeThis: Yes, with the idea of giving up the g7 bishop for that knight on c3 - scandalous. There are GM games where that bishop is hitting a rook on a1, and the GM's with white just leave it there - that is the value of that g7 bishop.|
Fischer knew the rules, and he knew when he could break them.
|Oct-30-11|| ||talisman: <AnalyzeThis> Exactly.|
|Jul-30-12|| ||Everett: Both Spassky and Petrosian either forgot or ignored home analysis and prep during Fischer's run. It is very strange, these free thinkers going their own way... |
At this point in the match, Spassky's brain was still a sieve. I wouldn't be surprised if he did review it with Bondarevsky, but completely forgot about it when he was at the board.
|Jul-30-12|| ||perfidious: <drukenknight: ....Okay can one of you Pirc experts tell me why Spassky doesn't take 7 cxd6?....>
Long ago, I played this line numerous times as Black and never had the pleasure of playing 7.cxd6 Nxe4, which is winning.|
<....My NY Times book on the match says this is a well known opening but my old MCO book doesnt have it....>
The only MCO I've ever owned is the eleventh edition and I've no idea what it has to say as it's buried somewhere.
Another kibitzer mentioned 7.Qd3, which was played against me in Burnham-A Shaw, 2nd Monadnock Marathon 1979. There followed 7....Nxe4 8.Qxe4 Bxc3+ and my tired brain doesn't remember the rest of the game, except that my opponent somehow grovelled a draw from this mess.
|Jul-30-12|| ||perfidious: As to <Eyal>'s kibitz on 29.10.09, it's true that Spassky exerted himself to the utmost in the latter phase of the match (in fact with both colours), but Fischer withstood the test.|
That is the mark of a champion-give as good as you get.
|Jul-31-12|| ||Everett: <perfidious> That's right. Fischer did not break, whereas Spassky crumbled in the first half of the match.|
|Oct-31-12|| ||The Rocket: <Both Spassky and Petrosian either forgot or ignored home analysis and prep during Fischer's run.>|
I know in Spasskys case that it's well known that he forgot aloth of the prep Geller was providing.
|Jun-25-13|| ||hudapri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJm... Seirawan shows ideas in the opening (and his own sideline traps).|
|Jun-25-13|| ||talisman: <hudapri> thanks for the link!|
|Jan-27-14|| ||MarkFinan: I watched a film with Michael Caine last night called, Harry Brown. And for one reason or another a policewoman shows up at his door and he's going through a game of chess on his chessboard and she asks him about it. He goes on to explain that it's game 6(or 7?) of the 72 WCC match between Spassky and Fischer, it's a Pirc (pronounced Pearce!) and that Fischer sacs the rook for a Bishop (?) to gain control of the center (?) and goes on to win (?). Well out of all the 72 WCC games this is the closest to Caines description... Amazing how the eval never goes above 0.50 in either players favour. I really have no comment other than that on the game itself because it's above my head. I mean, I understand that Fischer just wants to draw the game as he has the black pieces. I can tell that without using an engine, and I understand that he didn't really play this as black, but I don't understand why he would do it an exchange down when he didn't have to!? I understand the game, but I don't see him gaining control of the center by having the knight as opposed to the rook. |
|Jan-27-14|| ||GREYSTRIPE: <MarkFinan> Nicely said. A Grunfeld Nimzowitch is only possible without a chess-board.|
|Jan-27-14|| ||MarkFinan: Is a Grunfeld - Nimsowitch another name for a Pirc?? I don't understand your last post!?|
|Jan-27-14|| ||perfidious: <Mark> You aren't the only one.|
Never heard the Pirc referred to thus in my forty years of chess.
|Jan-27-14|| ||diceman: <The Rocket: <Both Spassky and Petrosian either forgot or ignored home analysis and prep during Fischer's run.>|
I know in Spasskys case that it's well known that he forgot aloth of the prep Geller was providing.>
I think its a safe bet that Spassky
didnt "prep" the Pirc, Queen Pawn,
or the English from Fischer.
...or even Nh5 in the Benoni.
|Jan-27-14|| ||diceman: |
<Everett: Both Spassky and Petrosian either forgot or ignored home analysis and prep during Fischer's run. It is very strange,
these free thinkers going their own way...>
Looks like Boris knew what was going on.
<"I was the strongest from 1964 to 1970, but in 1971 Fischer was already stronger." - Boris Spassky>
...of course, its nothing new.
<"People have been playing against me below their strength for fifteen years"-Bobby Fischer>
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