< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jul-25-05|| ||Orbitkind: I think Fischer's games in this 1992 match are exciting and complicated; this is real chess how it should be played.|
|Jul-25-05|| ||ughaibu: Amazing, even in 1992 Fischer was still in Geller's shadow: Leonid Stein vs Geller, 1966|
|Aug-09-05|| ||turkishgrandmaster: I have analyzed this before in one of my books.|
|Aug-15-05|| ||RookFile: Ok. My memory of this is: 14. h4
was thought to be a better approach
than what Stein tried, namely: 14. Bc2. But: Bobby's 14.... g4! involved some analysis that Bobby had done in the 1970's, but he still remembered, that basically refuted
this whole opening.
|Aug-15-05|| ||ughaibu: "A better approach"? white's position is resignable.|
|Aug-15-05|| ||WMD: From the match book No Regrets (Seirawan, Stefanovic):|
6.Bg5? This old move is rightfully condemned by today's theoreticians. Black gets a comfortable game, as Bobby now demonstrates....
9.Bd3?? Horrible. Boris falls into a well known trap. Theory rightfully considers 9.Qd2, breaking the pin, to be forced. Black would then play 9...Nh5, followed by capturing on g3 with an easy game....
13.Rc1 In the stem game Stein-Geller, USSR 1966, White played even worse. He continued 13.Ne2?.....
14.h4 From the game Radomski - Timoshchenko, USSR 1976, White tried 14.Qh5+ Kd8 15.h4 g4! 16.Bd3 f4 17.Bxf4 Qxf4 18.Ne2 Qf6 and Black was much better.
14...g4! Thematic and strong. White's h1-Rook remains bottled up. Weaker is 14...fxe4? 15.Qh5+ Qf7 16.hxg5 when White does good business on the kingside. After the text, Black has the better position and a material advantage. It wouldn't be unfair to say that Boris is lost...
Fischer: I'm satisfied, I think it was a good game. I think it was an opening trap, an old, old opening trap, maybe 20, 25 years or more old.
Host: Are you talking about the move [13...]Qf6 maybe, or later?
Fischer: I'm talking about 9...Nxe4.
Host: You didn't know that move before?
Spassky: I knew that, but I'm not sure that this is good for Black. I was not sure, I'm not sure now. I'm not sure that theory gives that position in favour of Black.
Fischer: All I know is that I remember I saw that Black was winning the game, or should have been winning. That's what I remember.
|Aug-15-05|| ||RookFile: This comment matches what I remember:
Spassky was aware of the 9...Nxe4
move, but thought his 13. Rc1 and
14. h4 would make it ok for him.
Boris must have been expecting the
continuation 14... fxe4 15. Qh5+ Qf7
16. hxg5. However, Bobby had looked at 14... g4 around 1970, which really
puts the lights out on this. Unfortantely, my chess library is not
what it once was, but if memory serves, this comment comes from Peters' book on the match.
|Aug-16-05|| ||ughaibu: In the comments they both sound drunk to me.|
|Aug-16-05|| ||WMD: Generally speaking, it was a very demanding match for two men of advancing years, which obviously took a toll on the quality of the play. There being no provision for adjournments, the playing sessions often lasted 6 or 7 hours.|
The first 11 games, in Sveti Stefan, took place over 19 days, and then after a 9 day break, another 19 games in Belgrade over a period of 37 days.
|Sep-27-05|| ||ughaibu: RookFile: the comment has very little resemblence to what you remember.|
|Sep-27-05|| ||VinnyRoo2002: This is a beautiful game. I'm not strong enough to properly analyze this game, or say how well this game was played, but it was an absolute delight to go over. I surmise that Fischer would have given many GMs problems with play like this.|
|Aug-10-07|| ||RookFile: Fischer played a perfect game here.|
|Apr-22-08|| ||percyblakeney: Spot the wrong vowel: <Benoni Defense: Hromodka System>|
|Apr-22-08|| ||Phony Benoni: percyblakeney: Spot the wrong vowel: <Benoni Defense: Hromodka System> |
The third "o" is "a" phony.
|Apr-22-08|| ||RookFile: These two comments were very telling:
<Spassky: I knew that, but I'm not sure that this is good for Black. I was not sure, I'm not sure now. I'm not sure that theory gives that position in favour of Black.
Fischer: All I know is that I remember I saw that Black was winning the game, or should have been winning. That's what I remember.>
|Sep-07-09|| ||TheMacMan: Qa1+!!!
Fischer is the greatest ever chessplayer, but capablanca and alekhine are close, very close to his strength
|May-10-11|| ||WhiteRook48: 9 Qd2 is the better choice|
|May-10-11|| ||newton296: <RookFile: Fischer played a perfect game here.>|
does ...b6 (fisher's choice) in this position look like the perfect move?
click for larger view
Analysis by Houdini 1.5a w32:
1. (-8.70): 29...Qxf4 30.Rf2 Qd4 31.Qb2 Qxb2 32.Rxb2 Rxf3 33.Kh2 Rd3
2. (-5.05): 29...Qf6 30.Kf1 Qxf4 31.Qc3 Bg4 32.Rf2 Bxf3 33.gxf3 Qf5
3. (-4.03): 29...b6 30.Qe3 Bg4 31.Bxg4+ R8xg4 32.Qe6+ Qxe6 33.dxe6 Rxf4
nice try fishbot! but there goes your "fisher played a perfect game here" theory.
|Apr-27-12|| ||VinnyRoo2002: We've already gotten into the objective/subjective debate a few times on this site, but just making the preferred engine move does not equate to perfection in a game against humans. Why allow white counterplay if it's unnecessary? Perhaps the line that's -4.03 is easier for a human to caluclate and finish off then the line that's -8.70. I'm not the one claiming that Fischer played perfect in this game, but spouting off some engine lines without any regards for human factors is honestly not the best way to get good at chess or understand chess games between humans.|
|Apr-27-12|| ||DWINS: Clearly, 29...Qxf4 is a much better move than Fischer's 29...b6. Bobby appears to be afraid of ghosts in this position as White's "threat" of 30.Qxb7+ is a non-starter. Stockfish rates the position after 30.Qxb7+ as (-97.21), which is as bad as it gets short of finding a forced mate. The lines are not even especially complicated.|
The line Fischer plays certainly wins, but it does point out that the Fischer of 1992 was a shadow of the player he was in 1972. Back then, Bobby would not have played 29...b6. This is hardly surprising as he hadn't played a serious game in 20 years and barely merits a comment, but I think <newton296> felt the need to respond to <RookFile's> comment about Fischer playing a perfect game since <RookFile> is one of the Fischer fanboys who thinks that Fischer never made a bad move in his life.
|Apr-27-12|| ||VinnyRoo2002: I don't disagree that Fischer did not play perfectly as rookfile stated, but I will say that defending an engine line with another engine line doesn't prove much. I'm not so sure if Fischer saw shadows or just figured why allow my opponent some play when it's not necessary. It's also speculation to say that in 1972 Fischer would not have played b6. It's impossible to demonstrate one way or another.|
|Apr-27-12|| ||harrylime: <DWINS>
Actually I like the way Fischer finishes off this game..
So do you know what you can do with your 'Stockfish' ?
Sure.. The uber motivated streamlined classical Bobby of 1970 was better than the rusty,out of touch, aged and dishevelled Bobby of 1992 .. So ??
|May-08-13|| ||Jonathan Sarfati: Compare Stein vs Geller, 1966|
|May-08-13|| ||RookFile: Some silliness here. Those computer lines all lead to astromonical values if you just slide them forward some more. Fischer's 29...b6 denies white the slightest hint of counterplay and wins the game.|
|Jun-08-13|| ||FrenchDefence: This was chess....nowadays you only see catalans,grunfelds sicilians and sometimes Ruy lopez and only some variations of them....then you could see benonis,pircs,alekhine's defence,sicilian lines rarely used today and QGD lines seldomly used,let alone ruy lopez lines that GMs avoid today....|
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