< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Nov-25-07|| ||RandomVisitor: 25...e5 might be better than 25...Rad8.|
|Nov-25-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: Fascinating. Deep Shredder took over 2 minutes to find the first move. Hiarcs took only about 5 seconds to zero in on 24.Nxe6. A similar discrepancy occurs at move 25: Hiarcs within 10 seconds prefers 25...e5 for the black (instead of the Rad8 that was played in the game), while it took a long time for Shredder to find 25...e5.|
So, it looks like the black missed the aforementioned move, but the improvement would be small.
Another mistake by the black was 26...Rf6; 26...Nf6 would be much better (almost 2 pawns worth). Time to gloat: Nf6 was identified in my ramblings as a major spoiler :-)
As RV already mentioned, 28.Be6 is much better than 28.Ne6 (MAJ, don't forget to gloat again :-).
Fortunately for white, black did not play 28...Rd6, which would make the win much more difficult (+1.46) and played the majorly losing f5 (+4.80). To say the truth, though, Rd6 is one impossible move to see, at least to me.
31. ... Qc5 was the final inaccuracy (Kf8 was about a pawn's worth better).
BTW, here's a possible line after 28...Rd6, pretty much forced except 31...Nxc7 is only a little bit better than 31...Ba4.
28... Rd6 29. Nxc7 f5 30. Rd1 fxg4 31. c4 Nxc7 32. Qxd6 Qxd6 33. Rxd6 Be8 34. Rd8 Kf8 35. Rc8 Ne6 36. Ra8
and now (black to move):
click for larger view
it is quite clear that black's queenside pawns are doomed, and white's pawns are going to be hard to stop. Still, it is a long way to go from here.
|Nov-25-07|| ||mkrk17: I did get Nxe6 dxe6, Ng5. But i stopped there as i know that the puzzle is insane and might take many more moves. But i was surprised to see white win so quickly. Nice play by white.|
|Nov-25-07|| ||mig55: I looked at Nxe6...Ng5 and Lxe6 but I got a headache with the moves black could do, so I stopped...|
|Nov-25-07|| ||krusheto: Well I guessed 24.Ne6 dxe6 25.Ng5, but I didn't see black's response to it nor any forcing line that white might have under it's sleeve. I'm giving up on insane puzzles lol.|
|Nov-25-07|| ||Alphastar: Alright, I'll give it a try. Focal points here are e6 and h7. Pretty much the light squares are important, because black's lightsquared bishop is currently somewhere else.|
How about 1. Nxe6 dxe6 2. Ng5
Threatening among other things 3. Rxe6 and 3. Bxe6+ Kh8 4. Nf7+.
I'm not going to work this out though. There's just too many possibilities for black. I'll play 1. Nxe6 and offer a draw. I'd probably fail if I tried to play a combination here.
|Nov-25-07|| ||znprdx: 24.Bxe6+ d7xe6[B] 25.Nxe6 Qxe6[N] 26.Ng5 Qh6 27.Re6 the essential point g6 28.Rxc6[B]
After yesterday’s challenge I won’t be surprised if there is something else – but I figure this is better than most of the candidate moves. |
Now it gets tricky as Black struggles not to lose another piece. Here there are many continuations but in general Black’s inactive queen and vulnerable king give White the clear edge. After another half dozen moves it is probably resignable
|Nov-25-07|| ||ViktorH: I got it right to move 28, I thought he would play Nf4 instead to save the rook and get Bishop to d5 after Qc4.|
oh well. It's insane alright.
|Nov-25-07|| ||znprdx: I think Lucy just took away the football again Arrrgggghhhhhh...It's another Charlie Brown hopeless Sunday:)|
Well this is a nice illustration of how the greater majority of Chess games are won: they are lost in the myriad of complications. Always mindful of the infamous "both sides played so badly - it is difficult to see how either player won"..this was another bar brawl which ends one of the more interesting weeks> great picks <CG>
|Nov-25-07|| ||ARival: never mind the puzzle I dont even understand the end [answer].
What happens after 32. ... Qd6 ? 33.Qxg4+ Kh8?|
|Nov-25-07|| ||JG27Pyth: <ARival: What happens after 32. ... Qd6 ? 33.Qxg4+ Kh8?>|
Please someone wiser correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the issue is that the N is lost.
for example 32.Qd6 Rd1 and I don't think there's a way to save the N. The white queen escapes counterattacks by checking.
32 Qb5 meets... c4 etc
as I said... correct me if I'm wrong
|Nov-25-07|| ||alshatranji: So what is the refutation of 26.. Qg6?|
|Nov-25-07|| ||xrt999: I got the first 2 moves, then CM threw in 25...Nf4, after considering 25...Rad8|
24. Nxe6 dxe6
25. Ng5 Nf4
26. Qc4 Bg2
|Nov-25-07|| ||patzer2: For today's insanely difficult Sunday puzzle, White plays the demolition combination 24. Nxe6!!, creating multiple strong threats after ...24 dxe6 25. Ng5!|
Potentially weak is 21...Rf5?!, because it allows the strong 22. Bf3! (threatening Be4 followed by c5). Instead, 21...Rad8 22. Bf3 Ba8 = holds.
Allowing White to win the exchange (and probably the game) is 22...Bc6? 23. Bg4! Instead, 22...Rd8 23. Bg8 Rff8 = neutralizes White's threats.
After 23...Rff8 24. Nxe6!!, Black is practically busted. Instead, he can fight for the draw, only an exchange down, after 23...Ne7 Bxf5 Nxf5. However, against Hort this was probably a losing proposition.
|Nov-25-07|| ||playground player: The hardest thing about this puzzle was this: I was beguiled by seeing that if only I could draw off the Black Queen somehow, while leaving my g5 Knight in place, and getting my e4 Knight out of the way, I can play Qxh7#! It took me a while to see that none of that was in the cards. Eventually Nxe6 became the only move...|
|Nov-25-07|| ||patzer2: Here's my look at Hort's combination with Fritz 8:
<24. Nxe6!! dxe6 25. Ng5 Rad8>
[25... Nf4 26. Qc4 ;
25... e5 26. Be6+ Kh8 27.
Bxd5 Rad8 28. c4 ;
25... Bd7 26. Bxe6+ Bxe6 27. Rxe6 Nf6 28. Qc4 ;
25... Nf6 26. Bxe6+ Kh8 27. Qc4 ;
25... Rae8 26. Bxe6+ Kh8 27. Bxd5 Rd8 28. c4 ]
<26. Rxe6 Rf6>
[26... Nf6 27. Qc4 Bd5 28. Qxc7 ]
<27. Rxf6 gxf6>
[27...Qxf6 28. Be6+ Kf8 (28... Qxe6 29. Qxh7+ Kf8 30. Nxe6+ Ke7 31. Nxc7 Nxc7 32. Qxg7+ Kd6 33. Rd1+ Bd5 34. c4 ) 29. Nxh7+ ]
[Stronger is 28. Be6+! Kg7 29. Nf7 Qh5 30. Nxd8 Bxd8 31. Bxd5 Bxd5 32. Rd1 Be4 33. Qxd8 Qf3 34. Rd7+ Kh6 35. Kf1
Qh1+ 36. Ke2 Qf3+ 37. Ke1 .]
[Putting up more resistance, but probably still losing, is 28... Rd6!? 29. Nxc7 f5 30. Rd1 fxg4 31. c4 Nxc7 32. Qxd6 Qxd6 33. Rxd6 Be8 34. Rd8 Kf8 35. Rb8 Ke7 36. Rb7 Kd7 37. Rxa7 Bf7 38. b3 Bg6 39. a4 Bd3 40. a5 Kc6 41. f3 gxf3 42. Kf2 b5 43. cxb5+ Nxb5 44. Re7 Nd4 45. a6 Bxa6 46. Rxh7 Nxb3 47. Rh6+ Kb5 48. Rxa6 Kxa6 49. h5 .]
<29. Nxd8 fxg4 30. Nxc6 Qxc6 31. Qe4 Qc5 32. b4 1-0>,
[Play might continue 32...Qc6 ( or 32... Qb5 33. Qxg4+ Kh8 34. c4 Qxb4 35. Qd4+ Kg8 36. Qxd5+ ) 33. Rd1 .]
|Nov-25-07|| ||DarthStapler: I looked at Nxe6 but didn't see anything from it.|
|Nov-25-07|| ||Jack Kerouac: The strongest move I've seen lately, is Kasparov's latest.
The Knight is trapped, but I'm hoping there's a fork against the 'King' of Russia......|
|Nov-25-07|| ||Jimfromprovidence: I wish black had played play 25… Nf4! as <al wazir> first indicated.|
This is a potentially great move because it protects the e6 square, attacks the white queen and there are problems for white if the piece is taken by white’s g pawn. If 26 gxf4? then 26… Qxh4 threatens mate next move. White is forced to trade queens. White gains a pawn but ends up with doubled pawns on the f file, so the advantage is very slim.
If 26 Qc4 then 26…Bg2! answers pretty nicely for black. White will eventually win just a pawn from this line. For example, 27 Bxe6+ Kh8 28 Qxc7 Bxf1 29 Nf7+ Rxf7 30 Bxf7 Nh3+ 31 Kh2 Nxf2 32 Rxf1 Qd2.
click for larger view
|Nov-25-07|| ||znprdx: Feedback anyone?-Please-regarding my direct to the chase 24.Bxe6+|
|Nov-25-07|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <Znprdx> <Feedback anyone?-Please-regarding my direct to the chase 24.Bxe6+>|
26…Qf5 stops it.
|Nov-25-07|| ||patzer2: Jimfromprovidence> How does Black continue after 25...Nf4 26. Qc4 Bg2 27. Qxc7? Fritz 8 shows it's a win, but maybe it's missing something.|
|Nov-25-07|| ||TrueBlue: don't you just love Sundays? 10 move combination to win a ... pawn :)|
|Nov-25-07|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <Patzer2> <How does Black continue after 25...Nf4 26. Qc4 Bg2 27. Qxc7? Fritz 8 shows it's a win, but maybe it's missing something.>|
It looks like 27 Qxc7 instead of 27 Bxe6+ is indeed better for white.
Black loses at least the equivalent of two pawns.
Based on the other postings and my own analysis, I can't find
any defense for black that does not lose any less than two pawns.
Maybe someone else can find something better.
|Nov-26-07|| ||kevin86: It seems to me that white's final advantage is quite small,♖+2♙ vs ♗+♘. I guess it's enough to win,according to his resigning opponent. |
White took advantage of black limited mobility-especially by the queen-to gobble up the pieces.
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