< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 10 OF 10 ·
|Aug-24-14|| ||Jimfromprovidence: I kind of understand why 66...Bb1 works for black.
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If, for example, white plays 67 d5, then after 67... Bxd5 68 Nxd5 Kxd5 here is the position.
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This is a tablebase draw as after white exchanges his a pawn for black's b pawn black has the opposition.
I am not quite sure what a knight move might do for white instead.
55... Nh5 intrigues me.
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I guess the point is that after exchanging f pawns, white can somehow black's d pawn, but how does that happen?
|Aug-24-14|| ||chrisowen: As us agree d6 for have want be d7 proof a better glide to go ebony bemoans lack of a piece to regain pawns at a3 etc d4 and b4 lights knight dominates at rest length a stride good for oodles too be cut hint change off a glean act dead to duck in ar good jangle d7 at i heaven above in beck and cull re evermore senses la bin bets alive no more bus a wire custom both queens off endgame a hot cocoa to savour blacks struggle to survive stash good knight bad give bishop over time feels at churlish behaviour to let a6 have dotes at also h5 and f6 once d5 goes down clink free court jail ride a d6 for ear behested i harangue under the radar as cop pit now in gob colate i ergo often in a cherubim rises d6 to the surface cloud a d7 over straight lane d5 boot h5 and circulate again hover for the kill pins at legs grieves 47.Ng2 hxg3+ ah good rush in rash decision at rides and slides hash head h5 to have hand in rich again dilemma spoilt for choice a cherubim float f6 and angle a6 hires away in baby h5 first fall d5 a lump it honour in hope a nut here b1 us ar gain nothing pawns off dark squares tell d5 a go aggregate agile d6 as needs to stay centered a b1 fane any og hurt having question of a fashion why allow this sub as have pawn up an yet black is on the back foots around to augment a link in aloof hands up who saw a white win ever tickle and you gave d5 away h5 too ignoble mission in jaded at bet glitch in the system grieve d7 off grief d6 around king holds equal in channels i tete in to head off ignite again early in either bind a ne3 gg bull shin band;
d5 have h5 sights again church of reason a bull h5 rush d5 bind-arch vice low in advance his arms keystone load to bare a deep it is gulch in give victory back inch eg wins a chug along inch i go rinse a wave in ar good jangle handed off slick d6 back gossamer down grades d7 sages at success to aid in duty ramble give in-front 48.Kxg3 Ke6 49.Nf4 aim fast dry him out food for thought and farm flow a finger of fudge d6 fancy that as d7 bad yet difficult as la bind concrete would have been skid the cycle d6 up on time instigate 49...Kf5 better square a pine ramblings 49...Kd6 drawn i would suggest rollover 50.Nxh5 or deem in a tour need as have droll in the ocean 50.Nxd5 (0.38) ersatz equal material should be a draw as greece lightning comes often 50...Ke6 51.Nf4+ bodes well gadfly as i re edict king hunt is on affabled circle around flame i court a 51...Kd6 52.Kg4 Bc2 53.Kh5 Bd1 54.Kg6 Ke7 55.Nxd5+ bobble and voice an opinion have interpret main delve in energy take down wave drift hood d5 lane destiny hod seems to lift deem well gains again?|
55...Ke6 56.Nc7+ bribed curious entrance way in visual description rail fence bolt the cub hole local fox team rounds a tinder cute fall win by degree changes the frame as tend effront lights desire to win forge the road choose angled c7 gg circles around cruise a king black e6 baulk away in;
drivens the dabbler a natural surge effect 56...Kd7 or chest ermine coat slot away steel crunch 56...Kd6 57.Ne8+ wins a f6 pawn whilst black grab at f3 should be at drawn too good fetch on duty travel in head gave at d4 shelter down grade alimony 57.Nxa6 two ahead until a d1 ok f3 erm enter d6 the centre would a6 tangle off fork king and pawn b5 wins to march ahead d6 seized inter dark frame ran form it plans in manage d7 binds at fill to no a d6 i legs shins up it ok in ogle red king band bucked i shave bag d4 mash tier a relative walk from here on in unitl send for reinforce believe get stance arrive 66...Bb7 lane at bang da real shines around 66...Bb7 dash hone tend an early bath dire ride leeway d7 ment hat thrown f6 in the fired ring gg ebony hob i bank rosier d7 jaffa a6 bled b5 dust;
buck have in sluice of slink man pop it perfectly done near enough by light darned mint b5 hail monumentally and historically snatch a query d6 over at d7 windy king bash and mulls am jostle stick eg brave e7 you d6 giant extension gives f6 light black d6 band d5 victor as event re edifice ogle b5 another bind cost rack gave dine ja ship game base bed since do sell beck be chin down have need of dessist king high as right red eyes shadow d7 fish around winding up low again f6 cuffs eg ment quarter buck b5 form feets muffed d7 and b7 for absoluteness sake.
|Aug-24-14|| ||hedgeh0g: Absolutely no clue. The position after 46...gxh4 looks very drawish to me, and presumably it looked drawish to Kasparov as well.|
Maybe the position <is> drawn with best play, but Karpov wasn't having any of it.
|Aug-24-14|| ||catlover: Good game. Good pun.|
|Aug-24-14|| ||agb2002: <Jimfromprovidence: ...
I guess the point is that after exchanging f pawns, white can somehow black's d pawn, but how does that happen?>
One only needs to use the king and the knight to push back the black king until reaching a position like
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Now 1.Ne7+ wins Black's d-pawn and the game.
There's a simplified version of this ending in Pachman's "Modern Chess Strategy", page 311.
|Aug-24-14|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <agb2002> I very much appreciate what you posted but earlier kibitzing offers a potential alternative for black.|
<...according to Dvoretsky's endgame manual, after 55. Nh5 Bxf3 56. Nxf6, Black can try 56..Be4+! 57.Kg5 Bd3!>
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<As is easy to see, the king cannot force its way into the f6- or e5-squares. So he has to take the pawn:
58.Nxd5+ Kd6 59.Nc3 (59.Ne3 or 59.Nf4 changes nothing) but then Black plays 59..Bf1! 60.Kf4 Bg2 61.Ke3 (intending Ne4-c5) 61..Bh3! 62.Ne4+ Kd5 63.Nc5 Bc8 64.Kd3 Bf5+ 65.Kc3 Bc8, when Black appears to draw.>
So It would be better to see a definitive proof one way or the other if it's available.
|Aug-24-14|| ||WDenayer: The very last thing I want to do is to contribute to the non-debate about who was better, Fischer or Karpov, but I remember this game and others and my feelings about it. I always found that Fischer's games were clear. It's not that they weren't great - of course they are - or difficult, of course, but I could understand them - I mean, analyse them. And then these two played and I got lost. I did not understand it. It was too difficult for me. I couldn't analyse it. In my opinion, K and K put chess on a whole other level. Chess had never been so sophisticated before. It was stellar. These two were better - by far - than any other GM at the time. What they did was incredible.|
|Aug-24-14|| ||perfidious: <WDenayer> Karpov and Kasparov indeed had that extra, indefinable something which characterises players of the very highest quality; whatever one makes of their apposite styles of play, no denying it. The younger man could hardly have become the great champion he was without Karpov to drive him ever higher.|
|Aug-24-14|| ||M.Hassan: <diagonalley>:
Is PN4 old notation of g4?
|Aug-24-14|| ||Everett: <Jimfromprovidence>
Dvoretsky goes on to show that after Marin's improvement <55.Nh5 Bxf3 56.Nxf6 Be4+ 57.Kg5 Bd3 <58.Ng4>>, with much analysis, White wins with best play. I can quote it, but you may find it easier in the Endgame Manual 2nd Edition (English) pg 133|
In any case, it confirms that White has to time precisely his capture of the d5-pawn in order to win against best play.
|Aug-24-14|| ||patzer2: <Everett><Specifically, White would plays after <48..Bg6 49.Nf4 <keeping Black's K back> Bf7 50.Kh4> and White wins the h-pawn and is in perfect position to outflank the Black K if the minors come off.> So does White have a forced win after 48...Bg6?|
|Aug-25-14|| ||Everett: <patzer2> I don't know if it is forced, but it does allows White to organize his pieces and gather the f- and h-pawns, and to be patient grabbing the others.|
|Jan-13-15|| ||1 2 3 4: 23. Qa5 was a little bad, BUT KARPOV SURE IS THE BEST POSITIONAL PLAYER EVER|
|Apr-01-15|| ||morphyesque: Could someone please explain what Kasparov would have played had Karpov played the pawn fork 18.b4 (instead of Rad1).Does this not win the exchange (or knight) for white?I can only see black's best continuation then as 18...Rxc3 19.Qxc3 d4 20.Qd2 dxe3 21.Qxd8 exf2+ 22.Rxf2 Rxd8 and white seems a good exchange up!|
|Apr-01-15|| ||Retireborn: <morphyesque> My notes give 18.b4 Rc8 19.bxa5 d4 with initiative for Black; extendeding this with 20.Rfd1 Qxa5 21.Rxd4 Rxc3 22.Qd2 looks pretty drawish however. In any case Karpov would not have wanted to allow Black to eliminate his isolated QP so cheaply.|
|Jun-03-15|| ||bellh: I picked up some chess books yesgterday from a used book store that is closing, and then saw this game last night for the first time.|
From IA Horowitz (Chess for Beginners) "In master play, the preference is for the bishop; although he covers squares of only one color, his cruising range is much generally greater than that of the kniight."
Apparently, Karpov never read that book.
Perhaps he read Capablanca (A Priner of Chess) who said that a blocked position with the pawns only on one side of the board "is about the only case where a knight is more valuable than the bishop" because Karpov methodically reduces the game to that position from about moves 47 to 54.
|Jul-06-15|| ||CHESS LIZARD: classical game of good knight and bad bishop|
|Oct-14-15|| ||The Kings Domain: WDenayer: Interesting comment. Kasparov and Karpov kept Chess in the limelight after it peaked with Fischer with their personalities and skill. They represented and were responsible for the last great era in Chess. Their rivalry was the greatest of the sport. But I don't get your comment on how you don't get their games, particularly in contrast to Fischer's which you claim is "clear". Kasparov's and Karpov's games are the same as any master where each player jockeys for the best position in order to win. Perhaps what you meant with Fischer's games as being "clear" is that they stood out, particularly in quality where some were brilliant. Kasparov and Karpov were never able to pull off a "Game of the Century", much more when they were Fischer's age when the latter accomplished that feat. Kasparov and Karpov were pretty much representatives of the Botvinnik school: the cold, calculating style of play which Tal rebelled against.|
|Dec-14-15|| ||Brandon D Davis: The Kings Domain,how can you say that Kasparov or Karpov never pulled off a so- called game of the century and use as a measuring stick between the 3? First of all in regards to the Donald Byrne vs Fischer game that you're talking about, yes it was a brilliant game and impressive for his age but it was one guy (maybe Golembek) that saw the game and dubbed it as such and the term stuck. You take Kasparov's pre Championship career and Kasparov vs Anderson Tilburg 1981 can easily be put on the same level as Fischer's win over Byrne if u ask me,which by Kasparov's own admissions was the best in his career for a long time. And please let's not forget Kasparov's famous "octopus game" in their first match WCC 1984 against Karpov,that's probably one of the most well known game in all of chess...And Karpov at a very early age had the famous attacking game against Gik which have been reprinted in tactical books the world over and is a model game for destroying the Sicilian Dragon as his game against Korchnoi(another game that was talked about the world over!)in their famous 1974 match where he brilliantly destroyed Korchnoi's Dragon and picked up the top brilliancy prize to boot!Karpov in these two games looks like a refined Tal... His games in 1971 against Hort with White and 1974 against Unzicker with white are also sheer Masterpieces. And Fischer for the record didn't turn out brilliancy prizes at every tournament he went too either, as a matter of fact I'm sure Kasparov and especially Alekhine trumps him in that department by a wide margin! I think you're wrong to try and take that one game and make claims about Fischer being the better player. Personally I don't think Fischer wanted any parts of Karpov,he knew what he was up against.He had more than enough chances to defend his title and under very reasonable circumstances and didn't do it. That's his fault.Karpov is a true Champion!|
|Dec-14-15|| ||WDenayer: What I meant to say is that I did not understand these games. It was only later, when Timman provided long and extremely detailed analyses of the games in Schaakbulletin that I got it: many, many moves that had the sole purpose of creating and then exploiting a slight weakened square – it turned out to be important 25 moves later on. Unbelievable. The chess that these guys played was better, more complex, more sophisticated than anything that had ever been seen before. And this was before computers could do anything.|
|Nov-29-16|| ||andrea volponi: 66...Ah1!!-Cf5 Rd5-Cg3 Ag2-Ce2 Rc4!-Cf4 Ac6=|
|May-01-17|| ||ZackyMuhammad: Knight vs Bishop|
|May-01-17|| ||offramp: A game that proves that the worst bishop is better than the best knight. Black could have drawn this very late in the game.|
|Jul-23-17|| ||andrea volponi: 55Nh5(!gm marin,ecc...) Bxf3 -Nxf6 Be4 -Kg5 Bd3 -Ng4(!gm marin) Bf1 -Ne5 Bh3 -Kg6! Ke6 -Nc6 Kd6 -Na5 Ke6!!(Ke7 marin,dvoretsky) -Nb7 Ke7 -Nc5 Bc8 -Kg7 Bf5 -Nxa6 Bd3 -Nb8 Be4 -Nc6+ Kd7 -Ne5+Ke7 -Ng4 Ke6 -Ne3 Bd3 -Kh6 Kf6 -Nxd5+ Kf5 -Nc3 Kf6 -a4 bxa4 -Nxa4 draw tablebase .|
|Mar-03-18|| ||AgentX: After deep analysis, and consulting the Endgame Manual, I think 55.Nh5 wins, following 55...Bxf3 56.Nxf6-Be4+ 57.Kg5-Bd3 and now 58.Ng4!!. The simple idea is to bring the knight over to the queenside (the c5-square), trying to win a6, and when the bishop is stuck defending the pawn from c8, white invades with the king.|
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