< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 31 OF 31 ·
|Sep-19-17|| ||Petrosianic: <offramp: It was a purely financial decision. FIDÉ was paying a fortune in hotel and venue costs. The venue had already been changed to somewhere cheaper.>|
That may be true, but it's not what Campomanes said. He cited only the health issues, and the fact that neither player was able to continue (even though neither player was making that claim, and Campomanes was not a doctor.)
If he'd cancelled it after Game 46 on the grounds that it was going nowhere and had become an organizational nightmare, only Karpov would have complained. But cancelling it because it's going nowhere right at the moment that it's going somewhere would have sounded phony (and been phony).
|Sep-19-17|| ||Howard: Yes, I never understand why Campo cancelled the match at the time he did---that is, after Kasparov had just won two straight games. Did he underestimate the flak that would almost inevitably occur?|
He probably should have waited another, say, another 4-5 games before deciding to cancel. If those next several games had been draws, then Kasparov's two wins probably would have looked like a fluke, and thus calling off the match probably wouldn't have looked so suspicious.
Not only that, if Karpov had managed to win a sixth game during that, say, Game 49-52 stretch, then Campos would obviously have not had to make any decision !
Just seemed that Campos picked a very "sensitive" moment to terminate the contest.
|Sep-19-17|| ||WorstPlayerEver: Hmm.. I guess they didn't cancel it in one day. |
Maybe Karpov suspected something and it affected his play.
Pure peculation but I heard Soviet officials complaining about the use of the (national) building for too long.
So I guess, also considering the state the Soviet Union was in, there must have been rumours about the upcoming cancellation.
|Sep-19-17|| ||Everett: As I said above, it's only the nature of the match length that stopped Karpov here. The fact that it is Fischer's idiocy that suggested this format in the first place adds extra irony to it all.|
|Sep-19-17|| ||nok: <He probably should have waited another, say, another 4-5 games before deciding to cancel.>|
He did propose to play eight more games. Kasparov refused, preferring that the match be stopped immediately. This was before the last game. Anyway, the players knew game 48 might be the last.
|Sep-19-17|| ||WorstPlayerEver: Probably posted before:
|Sep-19-17|| ||Howard: Yes, now I remember. It was suggested that the match continue for a limited number of additional games, but Kasparov objected.|
|Sep-19-17|| ||Petrosianic: He'd have been foolish to accept. If there were, say 8 games left, Karpov could go all out for a win, knowing that it could blow up in his face twice without repercussion.|
|Sep-20-17|| ||offramp: Lim Kok Ann wrote, in early 1986, |
<"Campomanes states that at first (in December) only the suspension of [this match] was considered, as a solution to the impasse – the players objected to <change of playing hall> 'against regulations'; the organizing committee’s lease on the Hall of Columns had long lapsed, and the hall was required for funerals, inter alia ...
Apparently Kasparov remarked that instead of a suspension he would prefer the match be terminated. This rash remark first put the idea to Campo that termination could be a solution...">
|Sep-20-17|| ||offramp: <Petrosianic: <offramp: It was a purely financial decision. FIDÉ was paying a fortune in hotel and venue costs. The venue had already been changed to somewhere cheaper.>
That may be true, but it's not what Campomanes said. He cited only the health issues, and the fact that neither player was able to continue (even though neither player was making that claim, and Campomanes was not a doctor.)...>|
He would, wouldn't he? When a company is about to go bankrupt the CEO comes on telly and says that the responsibility lies with interest rates, market corrections, crop failure in Tashkent, Hurricane Irma - anything except "Our business system has proved a total failure."
|Sep-20-17|| ||WorstPlayerEver: Whoa I guess my memory is not that bad. But I can find nothing about Karpov's weight loss. Although I remember that as well.|
I mean... didn't he eat enough?
|Sep-20-17|| ||nok: Iirc that's some crapola that appeared in the British press. (When Keene is around, beware.) At the end the players may have been more tired by the negotiations than anything else.|
|Sep-20-17|| ||Howard: As far as Karpov's "weight loss" he was reported to have lost weight during his near-marathon 1978 match with Korchnoi. Inside Chess, in fact, mentioned it in a 1991 issue.|
|Sep-20-17|| ||Petrosianic: That's because they were serving him yoghurt during the game. If Yoghurtgate had been Pork Rind Gate, Karpov would have gained.|
|Sep-22-17|| ||Howard: Petrosianic, I'll make the same comment to you that I made to the Chessmind blog about a week ago...|
....when are people going to stop using the suffix "gate" when referring to scandals or controversies ?! Not all of us were around from 1972-74, after all.
The Chessmind blog, incidentally, used the term "shortsgate", which prompted me to email them about it.
|Sep-22-17|| ||Petrosianic: I feel your pain on this. I guess it'll stop happening when there's a different scandal with a catchy name that people can riff on.|
But it's not just "Gate". There are a LOT of phrases that people use without having any idea where they come from. Like "he's down to his last red cent". Do you have any idea what a red cent is? Neither do I, but we've both heard the expression.
A lot of software seems to allude to machinery that doesn't exist any more. You may never have seen a mechanical cash register, but I'll bet you know that a "Ka-CHING" sound refers to raking in money. One of my favorites is Modem software with an icon of an old style desktop rotary phone. Most people have never seen such a thing. To them a phone is a flat, rectangular thing, not this weird looking contraption.
So I can see how it may be annoying, but really for better or worse, "Gate" has passed into the vernacular as a way of labeling something a scandal.
|Sep-22-17|| ||Petrosianic: But hey, it could be worse. If not for Watergate, all scandals might be named after Teapot Dome. Karpov-Korchnoi would have Yoghurt Dome, the Kovalyov business would be Shorts Dome. And so on. I think we're better off with gate.|
|Sep-22-17|| ||WorstPlayerEver: <Petro>
I guess "he's down to his brown cent" means something completely different..
Hint: in Holland cents were made from copper. And they get brown after a while.
|Sep-22-17|| ||beatgiant: <Petrosianic>
<Do you have any idea what a red cent is? Neither do I>
I thought it was because cents used to be pure copper and were indeed reddish, and I did not think this was an obscure bit of knowledge.
Your larger point does still stand. Language is full of these things. When will "-thon" stop being used for any lengthy and arduous effort? (marathon, telethon, walkathon...) How many even think of the original Battle of Marathon when using these words?
So, I'm afraid <Howard> will just have to bite the bullet.
|Sep-22-17|| ||Petrosianic: <beatgiant>: <When will "-thon" stop being used for any lengthy and arduous effort? (marathon, telethon, walkathon...) How many even think of the original Battle of Marathon when using these words?>|
That's a really good example, that had never occurred to me at all. I guess all those words do come from marathon, don't they?
<I thought it was because cents used to be pure copper and were indeed reddish, and I did not think this was an obscure bit of knowledge.>
I might have heard that before, but had forgotten it. I've never seen copper that looked red to me, and I saw a lot of copper ornaments on a trip to Santa Fe recently. But maybe they weren't pure.
|Sep-22-17|| ||beatgiant: <Petrosianic>
<I've never seen copper that looked red to me>
You're right, "brown cent" as in the Dutch idiom cited by <WorstPlayerEver> must be a more accurate description of the least valuable possible coin.
I just googled "red penny" and learned that it is a coin collecting term, where "red" is mint condition and "brown" is used condition. They are more colorful but not really "red," and "red" ones are actually more valuable for collectors than "brown" ones.
So this theory for the origin of the "red cent" idiom makes no sense! You were right, I have no idea why we say that.
|Sep-22-17|| ||WorstPlayerEver: My mother used phrases like: "Sit your brown cent down!"|
Little wonder I was kind of restless 😯
|Sep-22-17|| ||Petrosianic: <beatgiant>: <You're right, "brown cent" as in the Dutch idiom cited by <WorstPlayerEver> must be a more accurate description of the least valuable possible coin.>|
I did a little checking to try to find out why being redder or purer would make it less valuable. One site I found says that it really doesn't, that "red" is merely an intensifier, and that you could say "down to his last darned cent", and be saying the same thing.
|Sep-26-17|| ||diceman: <Everett: As I said above, it's only the nature of the match length that stopped Karpov here. The fact that it is Fischer's idiocy that suggested this format in the first place adds extra irony to it all.>|
Proves Fischer's point exactly.
He knew Karpov was weak the longer a match went on.
He knew a match where winning mattered, not draws, favored Fischer.
That said, Fischer probably couldn't imagine all the cheap draws they took.
|Oct-22-17|| ||rayoflight: <diceman>If you look at second-half of Fischer-Spassky 1972 match (if your Fischerism even allow it), you would observe several draws.Then how long should such a match goes on?
If you look at Carlsen-Karjakian 2016 match (again if your Fiscehrism allows it), you would observe several draws even in those games which Carlsen really pushed for a win and he failed.Then question is how long should such a match goes on?|
Keep playing till one side hits 6 wins was and is pure @#$%*&!#. Fischer knew very well he is never going to compete again therefore he issued some absolute nonsense to forge a justification for it.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 31 OF 31 ·