< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Feb-13-08|| ||whiteshark: lol <awfulhangover>: I searched a win, too, but gave up, since I couldn't find anything! :D|
|Feb-13-08|| ||just a kid: I was looking for a win also!I found that 43.Bc7! was a draw,but I kept searching for a win.Then I agreed just to go for the draw.After a fairly easy week last week Chessgames is coming back with a hard one.|
|Feb-13-08|| ||aazqua: CG needs to specify win or draw. I saw the draw quickly as well but assumed there must be a way to win given how loose black was.|
|Feb-13-08|| ||TrueBlue: the key was to see that black was very close to getting a queen, so draw was good. Yes, a little tricky but got it after 10 minutes.|
|Feb-13-08|| ||johnlspouge: Wednesday (Medium/Easy): White to play and draw
Material: B for N, down 3Ps. Because of the Black Pb2, White probably needs to mate. He has the Rf1 and Qf6 battering ram on the f-file, but his Bd8 is not in a good position to take advantage of the weak dark-square complex around the Black K. The Qc5 must defend against Qf8#.
Candidates (43.): Qxe6+, Be7, Bb6, Bc7
threatening perpetual check with (1) Qd8+, Qf6+, and Qh4+; (2) Qf7+ and Qf6+;
and mate with (3) 44.Qd8+ Kg7 45.Bxe5+ Kh6 [Qxe5 46.Qf8#] 46.Qh4#
The Kg8 cannot move. The Qc5 cannot stop threats (1) and (3); and the Rb7 cannot stop threat (1). The Ne5 can stop threat (2) only with 43...Nd7 or 43...Ng4, but the simplest way to demonstrate a draw is to note that
44.Qd8+ Kg7 45.Be5+
renews threats (1) and (3) after capture of Be5, because of
Time to peek. This was brutal. I went through four candidates, always looking for the win that was not there. Finally, I decided it was tough even to find a draw. To convince myself, I had to prove the position could be drawn.
Here's the proof of Wednesday's theorem (:>O
|Feb-13-08|| ||zb2cr: Rotgut. Because of Black's threat to immediately Queen, I totally dismissed any move that wasn't a check--and figured 43. Qxe6+ had to be it.|
|Feb-13-08|| ||johnlspouge: <dzechiel: Once the mating attack is shown not to be there (the real work in the position)>|
I needed a lot of confidence in my own judgment to stop looking for a non-existent win. I personally had to calculate a lot to call the position a draw.
<dzechiel: it's not THAT difficult to find the line that forces the draw.>
It's not THAT easy either ;>) Although Bd7 obviously needed to improve its position, I went through all the B's candidates before noting the obstruction of the Rb7.
Unless a failed candidate was particularly instructive, my failed candidates are usually the only Cheshire smile I leave of all my wrong turns. I believe our respective styles are appropriate, however, so thanks, <dzechiel>, for letting us see your processes on this puzzle.
<dzechiel: Thanks for keeping us on our toes, chessgames.>
Likewise, thanks, chessgames.
|Feb-13-08|| ||johnlspouge: <tallinn: But Fritz showed me the hole in my calculation: Bb6 Qd6 Bc5 Ng4! and white is lost.>|
Thanks, <tallinn>, for using Fritz. The quality of posts benefits enormously from chess programs. Just in case anyone does not know, my chessforum contains instructions for downloading chess freeware.
|Feb-13-08|| ||YouRang: I see I wasn't the only one looking (in vain) for a win. One mustn't presume...|
So, the best I can do is pretend that if I HAD considered looking for a way to draw, that I might have found 43...Bc7!!. :-)
|Feb-13-08|| ||kevin86: I was looking for a win-but I guess there was none to be had.|
|Feb-13-08|| ||mworld: i gotta say, looking for a draw is tough! Anytime I see a puzzle mid week I think it has to have material/mate to be an answer. Darn!|
|Feb-13-08|| ||YouRang: <aazqua: CG needs to specify win or draw. I saw the draw quickly as well but assumed there must be a way to win given how loose black was.>|
Well, if you saw the draw quickly, you solved it. :-)
But I disagree with the suggestion that cg.com must tell us which outcome to aim for.
Being able to properly assess a given position is an important chess skill to develop. Today, a bunch of us didn't assess it well or (more likely) didn't bother to assess it at all.
|Feb-13-08|| ||wals: Noting think-
What principal variation fits the strategic demands of the positiion?
43.Rf1-c1...Q x c1+ 44.Kh2...Ng4+ puts black in command
bang goes the white lady.
43.Bd8-b6 if R x b6 44.Qd8+ looks a winner
43.Bd8-b5 if Q x b6 44.Qf8+ decivise
The outcome depends on what black plays
Certainly a brilliant move by white and the only one to save him from defeat.
|Feb-13-08|| ||wals: Garry Kasparov - V Tukmakov, USSR 1982
Analysis by Fritz 11: depth 25/44 time 13.5min
1. = (0.00): 43.Bd8-c7 Rb7xc7 44.Qf6-d8+ Kg8-g7 45.Qd8-f6+ Kg7-g8
2. (-7.43): 43.Bd8-b6 Qc5-d6 44.Bb6-c5 Ne5-g4 45.Bc5xd6 Ng4xf6
46.Rf1-b1 Nf6xe4 47.Bd6-a3 Ne4-f2+ 48.Kh1-h2 Nf2-d3 49.Ba3xb2 Nd3xb2 50.Rb1-a1 a5-a4 51.Kh2-g3 Kg8-f7 52.Kg3-f3 Rb7-b3+ 53.Kf3-e4
|Feb-13-08|| ||playground player: Found the draw, but couldn't find a win. Guess I'd have to tell Kasparov, "On me you shouldn't depend."|
|Feb-13-08|| ||johnlspouge: <<wals> wrote: |
1. (0.00): 43.Bd8-c7 Rb7xc7 44.Qf6-d8+ Kg8-g7 45.Qd8-f6+ Kg7-g8
2. (-7.43): 43.Bd8-b6 Qc5-d6 44.Bb6-c5 Ne5-g4 45.Bc5xd6 Ng4xf6>
Thanks for today's analysis of the second-best move, <wals>!
(I am beginning to miss <MostlyAverageJoe>...)
|Feb-13-08|| ||wals: Of all the 10 to the power of 128 positions available I had to miss that one!|
|Feb-13-08|| ||eternaloptimist: This puzzle is too tough for a Wednesday. I never even looked @ the move ♗c7. I was too busy looking for a win instead of a draw. I was too much of an optimist :-). Basically Kasparov's idea was to vacate the d8 square for the ♕ to get a perpetual.|
|Feb-13-08|| ||TheaN: 3/3
Woah! Got into the exact direction I neeeded to into, not knowing White only could get a draw.
43.Bc7! salvages at least a half point with the Qd8 with Bxe5+ threats. Black has a few ways to respond:
43....b1=Q?? 44.Qd8+ Kg7 (Qf8 45.Qxf8#) 45.Bxe5+ Kh6 (Qxe5 46.Qf8#) 46.Qh4#
43....Nd7/Ng4 44.Qxe6+ Kh8 45.Qe8+ leading to a definite draw. Although it might be winning those lines are getting me crazy and Black should play optimal anyway.
43....Rxc7 44.Qd8+ Kg7 (Qf8 45.Qxf8#) 45.Qf6+ Kh6 (Kg8 46.Qd8+ Kg7) 46.Qh4 = perpetual.
Great play by Garry.
|Feb-13-08|| ||DarthStapler: I was looking for a win so I didn't even have the idea of going for a perpetual|
|Feb-13-08|| ||patzer2: For today's Wednesday puzzle solution, Kasparov forces a draw by perpetual with the surprise clearance sacrifice 43. Bc7! See <Wal>'s Fritz 11 analysis for more detail.|
|Feb-13-08|| ||Marmot PFL: Harder than the usual 2 star. Bc7 is not an obvious move.|
|Feb-13-08|| ||jovack: I actually didn't solve this one. I kept trying to solve for a win, and eventually gave up because I saw nothing that could be done.|
Perhaps next time it should say white to play and draw... like other puzzles, but whatever, now I'm aware that these puzzles just imply "best move" not necessarily "win".
|Feb-13-08|| ||jovack: I bet Vladimir started getting excited "yes I'm gonna beat the world's best!!"|
|Feb-13-08|| ||YouRang: <eternaloptimist><Basically Kasparov's idea was to vacate the d8 square for the Q to get a perpetual.>|
Yes, but as with all clearance sac's, the piece 'doing the vacating' must carry a payload of its own. In this case, only ...Bc7!! delivers, since it prevents both the white rook & queen from guarding d8, making the perpetual possible.
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