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Deep Blue (Computer) vs Garry Kasparov
"Tangled Up in Blue" (game of the day Oct-16-2016)
IBM Man-Machine, New York USA (1997), New York, NY USA, rd 6, May-??
Caro-Kann Defense: Karpov. Modern Variation (B17)  ·  1-0
To move:
Last move:

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Given 65 times; par: 22 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 15 OF 15 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-16-16  morfishine: Lets see, Joel Benjamin with a computer beats Kasparov, who doesn't have a computer

Am I supposed to be impressed?

*****

Oct-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Abdel Irada: ∞

Now, you see, this is what you get if you're Kasparov and you play the Karpov Variation.

Oct-16-16  tea4twonty: < and everyone of them words rang true, <<<<< Tangled Up in Blue <<<<>>>>>>>>>>
Oct-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  4tmac: 8..x♘! was necessary....playable....did he get too clever by half; forget; or something.
Oct-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: One of the worst games of chess of all time.
Oct-16-16  Pyrandus: Worst, but for payement! (Kasparov était vendu!)
Oct-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Robyn Hode: One amusing thing is that Stockfish 7, a free program, would mop the floor with Deep Blue.
Oct-16-16  dfcx: <Robyn Hode: One amusing thing is that Stockfish 7, a free program, would mop the floor with Deep Blue.>

According to wiki,
<In June 1997, Deep Blue was the 259th most powerful supercomputer according to the TOP500 list, achieving 11.38 GFLOPS on the High-Performance LINPACK benchmark.>

Well my current Mac laptop with an i5 processor can do 18.74 GFLOPS, almost twice as fast. Not to mention the progress in AI after 20 years.

I would be really disappointed if Deep Blue can hold up against any of the current chess engines.

Oct-17-16  Mendrys: <morfishine: Lets see, Joel Benjamin with a computer beats Kasparov, who doesn't have a computer Am I supposed to be impressed?>

Joel Benjamin merely consulted with the team that created Deep Blue, he didn't play any of the games so I don't think your point is valid.

Oct-17-16  WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys>

You don't know. That's exactly why Garry asked for Deepie's output... and didn't get it.

Oct-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: the mighty has fallen!
Oct-17-16  Mendrys: <WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys> You don't know. That's exactly why Garry asked for Deepie's output... and didn't get it.>

That proves nothing. In any case the logs were released later and nobody has been able to provide any compelling evidence that there was ever any cheating. Of course the logs could have been altered but that is besides the point! Most of the speculation around the cheating is based on the fact that Gary asked for the logs after game 2 and didn't get them. They just could have as easily modified them then as well.

To me it seems clear. Gary had laid out a clever trap for Deep Blue in game 2 that it didn't fall for. When he got toasted instead he became psychologically tilted and played poorly, as evidenced in this game or was the Deep Blue team accused of cheating in this game as well?

Oct-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  RookFile: Kasparov underestimated Deep Blue's strength. In the end, it's a simple as that.
Oct-18-16  WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys>

Really? So why they dismantled DB? To destroy the evidence. What else? DB team just put a psychological trick on Kasparov.

Oct-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: The Caro-Couldn't
Oct-18-16  Mendrys: <WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys>

Really? So why they dismantled DB? To destroy the evidence. What else? DB team just put a psychological trick on Kasparov.>

If that were true, which it is not - One bank is at the National Museum of American History while the other bank is at another museum, it still would not prove anything. This is specious logic at its best.

It's really down to what RookFile said - "Kasparov underestimated Deep Blue's strength..."

Oct-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Absentee: <Mendrys: <WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys>

Really? So why they dismantled DB? To destroy the evidence. What else? DB team just put a psychological trick on Kasparov.>

If that were true, which it is not - One bank is at the National Museum of American History while the other bank is at another museum, it still would not prove anything. This is specious logic at its best. >

You're only saying that because you haven't seen the pictures of Joel Benjamin chained inside Deep Blue. They're a little blurred, but it's clearly him.

Jan-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  posoo: it is OVIUS dat kaspovar THREW da match at da behest of da IBEMERS in order to advance da cause of da compoters and corpotions. a SHAM!

now we have stuckfoil and people sniff their rubkas. a true tragedy and LASKER CRIES.

Mar-27-17  ahmadov: Is this not the game that Kasparov called a "catastrophe"?
Apr-28-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  kbob: Even in retrospect it seems to me that Kasparov was remarkably behind in what was already ancient theory at the time. Karpov discussed these moves at length in his book "The Caro-Kann in Black and White" (1994) citing Geller-Meduna, Sochi 1986 and Chandler vs Huebner, 1987 ("...Grandmaster Heubner fell into the same trap a year later, and this time the crush was more convincing.") Karpov goes on to mention the correct, or at least playable move 8. ...fxe6 "achieving excellent chances" in Wolff vs Granda Zuniga, 1992
Apr-28-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi kbob,

Kasparov knew of the theory but his 7..h6 was a finger slip, (it happens to the best of them from time to time).

"Garry shook his head in disbelief."

page 109, 'Kasparov v Deep Blue' by Danny King.

This 7...h6 may have caused a quick sweat for the Deep Blue team because according to Danny King 8.Nxe6 was in the Deep Blue opening database.

So if at that stage DB was accessing it's ROM and told to sacrifice on e6 without working it out the BD team would have thought the worst:

"Why did Gary allowed it..Did he have a defensive improvement?"

The answer was no and judging from Kasparov's reaction the DB team would have breathed a quick sigh of relief. Gary simply got the move order mixed up.

Jun-04-17  Xonatron: In Garry's new book, Deep Thinking, he explains 7... h6 was a planned attacked, not a mistake, knowing that Deep Blue would not play 8. Nxe6 and retreat the knight instead. Other chess engines at the time were known not to play it, due to material disadvantage. Apparently he discovered afterwards that Deep Blue would also have not played it, had it not been for the opening book. There was a story coming from Deep Blue's team that this opening was entered into the database the morning of the game. As well, there was a story from Deep Blue's side that contradicting this.

Read the book!

Also read Behind Deep Blue, by Feng-Hsiung Hsu (the lead coder of Deep Blue).

Deep Blue's only positional advantage in the match came from a GM's entry in an opening book.

A rematch was deserved by both the chess world and computer chess world.

Jun-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi Xonatron,

I'm only repeating was Danny King said.

"Garry shook his head in disbelief." and later on "...he was distraught".

I'm pretty sure he was not trying to out-psyche a computer by gestures.

In a review of the 'Deep Thinking' by Garry Kasparov:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...

We read.

"Because the company was sponsoring the rematch (and putting up the $1.1m prize money), its staff were able to structure the venue in subtle ways, some of which had the effect of discomfiting Kasparov.

(In contrast to standard tournament practice, for example, IBM did not provide a private “team room” where he could consult with his seconds.)"

I've no idea what that bit in brackets relates too. Maybe the reviewer thinks players are allowed to consult with their seconds during a game or he has misread what Kasparov was saying...

...and anyway according again to Danny King ' Kasparov v Deeper Blue' on page 53 he says:

"Kasparov has his own room to which he can retreat if he wants to get a drink or something to eat."

Jun-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <In Garry's new book, Deep Thinking, he explains 7... h6 was a planned attacked, not a mistake, knowing that Deep Blue would not play 8. Nxe6 and retreat the knight instead. Other chess engines at the time were known not to play it, due to material disadvantage. Apparently he discovered afterwards that Deep Blue would also have not played it, had it not been for the opening book.>

Was Kasparov unaware that Deep Blue had an openings' book?

Jun-04-17  john barleycorn: <Was Kasparov unaware that Deep Blue had an openings' book?>

Vladimirov's revenge

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