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Deep Blue (Computer) vs Garry Kasparov
"Tangled Up in Blue" (game of the day Oct-16-2016)
IBM Man-Machine, New York USA (1997), New York, NY USA, rd 6, May-??
Caro-Kann Defense: Karpov. Modern Variation (B17)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 15 OF 15 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: One of the worst games of chess of all time.
Oct-16-16  Pyrandus: Worst, but for payement! (Kasparov était vendu!)
Oct-16-16  Robyn Hode: One amusing thing is that Stockfish 7, a free program, would mop the floor with Deep Blue.
Oct-16-16  dfcx: <Robyn Hode: One amusing thing is that Stockfish 7, a free program, would mop the floor with Deep Blue.>

According to wiki,
<In June 1997, Deep Blue was the 259th most powerful supercomputer according to the TOP500 list, achieving 11.38 GFLOPS on the High-Performance LINPACK benchmark.>

Well my current Mac laptop with an i5 processor can do 18.74 GFLOPS, almost twice as fast. Not to mention the progress in AI after 20 years.

I would be really disappointed if Deep Blue can hold up against any of the current chess engines.

Oct-17-16  Mendrys: <morfishine: Lets see, Joel Benjamin with a computer beats Kasparov, who doesn't have a computer Am I supposed to be impressed?>

Joel Benjamin merely consulted with the team that created Deep Blue, he didn't play any of the games so I don't think your point is valid.

Oct-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys>

You don't know. That's exactly why Garry asked for Deepie's output... and didn't get it.

Oct-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: the mighty has fallen!
Oct-17-16  Mendrys: <WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys> You don't know. That's exactly why Garry asked for Deepie's output... and didn't get it.>

That proves nothing. In any case the logs were released later and nobody has been able to provide any compelling evidence that there was ever any cheating. Of course the logs could have been altered but that is besides the point! Most of the speculation around the cheating is based on the fact that Gary asked for the logs after game 2 and didn't get them. They just could have as easily modified them then as well.

To me it seems clear. Gary had laid out a clever trap for Deep Blue in game 2 that it didn't fall for. When he got toasted instead he became psychologically tilted and played poorly, as evidenced in this game or was the Deep Blue team accused of cheating in this game as well?

Oct-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  RookFile: Kasparov underestimated Deep Blue's strength. In the end, it's a simple as that.
Oct-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys>

Really? So why they dismantled DB? To destroy the evidence. What else? DB team just put a psychological trick on Kasparov.

Oct-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: The Caro-Couldn't
Oct-18-16  Mendrys: <WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys>

Really? So why they dismantled DB? To destroy the evidence. What else? DB team just put a psychological trick on Kasparov.>

If that were true, which it is not - One bank is at the National Museum of American History while the other bank is at another museum, it still would not prove anything. This is specious logic at its best.

It's really down to what RookFile said - "Kasparov underestimated Deep Blue's strength..."

Oct-18-16  Absentee: <Mendrys: <WorstPlayerEver: <Mendrys>

Really? So why they dismantled DB? To destroy the evidence. What else? DB team just put a psychological trick on Kasparov.>

If that were true, which it is not - One bank is at the National Museum of American History while the other bank is at another museum, it still would not prove anything. This is specious logic at its best. >

You're only saying that because you haven't seen the pictures of Joel Benjamin chained inside Deep Blue. They're a little blurred, but it's clearly him.

Jan-20-17  posoo: it is OVIUS dat kaspovar THREW da match at da behest of da IBEMERS in order to advance da cause of da compoters and corpotions. a SHAM!

now we have stuckfoil and people sniff their rubkas. a true tragedy and LASKER CRIES.

Mar-27-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  ahmadov: Is this not the game that Kasparov called a "catastrophe"?
Apr-28-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  kbob: Even in retrospect it seems to me that Kasparov was remarkably behind in what was already ancient theory at the time. Karpov discussed these moves at length in his book "The Caro-Kann in Black and White" (1994) citing Geller-Meduna, Sochi 1986 and Chandler vs Huebner, 1987 ("...Grandmaster Heubner fell into the same trap a year later, and this time the crush was more convincing.") Karpov goes on to mention the correct, or at least playable move 8. ...fxe6 "achieving excellent chances" in Wolff vs Granda Zuniga, 1992
Apr-28-17  Sally Simpson: Hi kbob,

Kasparov knew of the theory but his 7..h6 was a finger slip, (it happens to the best of them from time to time).

"Garry shook his head in disbelief."

page 109, 'Kasparov v Deep Blue' by Danny King.

This 7...h6 may have caused a quick sweat for the Deep Blue team because according to Danny King 8.Nxe6 was in the Deep Blue opening database.

So if at that stage DB was accessing it's ROM and told to sacrifice on e6 without working it out the BD team would have thought the worst:

"Why did Gary allowed it..Did he have a defensive improvement?"

The answer was no and judging from Kasparov's reaction the DB team would have breathed a quick sigh of relief. Gary simply got the move order mixed up.

Jun-04-17  Xonatron: In Garry's new book, Deep Thinking, he explains 7... h6 was a planned attacked, not a mistake, knowing that Deep Blue would not play 8. Nxe6 and retreat the knight instead. Other chess engines at the time were known not to play it, due to material disadvantage. Apparently he discovered afterwards that Deep Blue would also have not played it, had it not been for the opening book. There was a story coming from Deep Blue's team that this opening was entered into the database the morning of the game. As well, there was a story from Deep Blue's side that contradicting this.

Read the book!

Also read Behind Deep Blue, by Feng-Hsiung Hsu (the lead coder of Deep Blue).

Deep Blue's only positional advantage in the match came from a GM's entry in an opening book.

A rematch was deserved by both the chess world and computer chess world.

Jun-04-17  Sally Simpson: Hi Xonatron,

I'm only repeating was Danny King said.

"Garry shook his head in disbelief." and later on "...he was distraught".

I'm pretty sure he was not trying to out-psyche a computer by gestures.

In a review of the 'Deep Thinking' by Garry Kasparov:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...

We read.

"Because the company was sponsoring the rematch (and putting up the $1.1m prize money), its staff were able to structure the venue in subtle ways, some of which had the effect of discomfiting Kasparov.

(In contrast to standard tournament practice, for example, IBM did not provide a private “team room” where he could consult with his seconds.)"

I've no idea what that bit in brackets relates too. Maybe the reviewer thinks players are allowed to consult with their seconds during a game or he has misread what Kasparov was saying...

...and anyway according again to Danny King ' Kasparov v Deeper Blue' on page 53 he says:

"Kasparov has his own room to which he can retreat if he wants to get a drink or something to eat."

Jun-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <In Garry's new book, Deep Thinking, he explains 7... h6 was a planned attacked, not a mistake, knowing that Deep Blue would not play 8. Nxe6 and retreat the knight instead. Other chess engines at the time were known not to play it, due to material disadvantage. Apparently he discovered afterwards that Deep Blue would also have not played it, had it not been for the opening book.>

Was Kasparov unaware that Deep Blue had an openings' book?

Jun-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  john barleycorn: <Was Kasparov unaware that Deep Blue had an openings' book?>

Vladimirov's revenge

Jul-21-17  Albion 1959: Can't imagine why GK played the Caro Kann in the deciding game? He played a shocker, it was if he decided to play it on the spur of the moment and then tried to improvise and muddle his way through over the board. It is a tribute to Deep Blue's tactical prowess and opening knowledge that GK did not have the confidence to play his customary Sicilian Defence ! An opening with which his thoroughly familiar and has scored many fine wins with, but somehow he was not prepared to risk it against the IMB monster calculator, which in effect is all that Deep Blue really is:
Jul-27-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <Was Kasparov unaware that Deep Blue had an openings' book?>

<MissScarlett>

Let's take a look in retrospective; the surrounding facts.

First, it's 1997. PC is all the rage. I bought a PC in 1994. A 486dx2. The whole package. Which contained an encyclopaedia, another cd which I don't remember and last but not least: Alone in the Dark.. a very creepy game. Which consisted of the same polygon stuff as it basically still is the same as it is today.

This package costed me 3150 Dutch florins. About $1250 in 1994. Which was a two month's salary for me.

Needless to say it's a SYMBOLIC event: man loses to ehm.. you get the point.

Needless to say it was about as good as it gets: no better ad needed to promote *bubble fx* THE FUTURE. The illusion we had to live in an illusion. Unevitable. To seperate our focus from our environment. Being controlled by a fantom. A meaningless reflection of what you once thought you were. So to speak.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What is this future? As it was seen back then in 1997?

This *projected* future from then is now.

And what do you know? Kasparov was selling Kasparov chess computers all over the place. In other words: computers are the bomb. If he had won no one would have been interested. As most people are not interested in chess in the first place.

Although their strength was -and is- pretty average.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is it deception? Or another conspiracy theory..

Well, de facto it is the symbolic submission to machinery...

However, Kaspy played so lousy it hardly was meant as a smokescreen, a masquerade. It was meant as a message to mankind: the gamer was born in submission!

Born to lose ha ha ha it's complete lunacy. If you think about it. The possession of the soul. Defeatism. As defined as the *new* intellectual norm. A standard. Something set to live up to. Buy more and more Pink Floyd records lol

It was an exposure as well, a declaration: the sacrifice of human intelligence was fulfilled. A symbolic event to clarify we -the human existence as we know it- are no longer the masters of our own destiny. Instead we have become nothing more ore less than matter to serve other more important matters. The purpose of this concept remains unquestioned, however. You are free to follow the orders to which you have to obey.

Let there be no doubt about; I address things exactly as I see they are. And I am convinced you cannot find a way around them.

Otherwise I would not even write this; I am sick of your sentimental crap. Your pettiness.

It was -so called- the sacrifice of the soul. Hahaha genius. Gotta love those concepts.

So let's work this out. yOur souls are kept at teh net. Strictly spoken it's categorical; the mind is separated from the body. It's literally buried in a book. A shrine. Cell phones and tabs are your new bibles AKA altars whateverness.

You carry them with you most of the time by now. You MUST obey to them. Given fact in particular. And download eh you know by now..

Again: a symbolic ritual. You are no longer the master of our own destiny. Now you must believe the machines control you. And they do. Ironically enough. And buy Pink Floyd records, obviously.

Let there be no doubt about; I address things exactly as I see they are. And I am convinced you cannot find a way around them. Unless you buy me a new swimming oool. We can freely negotiate here 😊

Otherwise I would not even write this; I am sick of your sentimental crap. Your pettiness. You must obey.

It was -so called- the sacrifice of the soul. Hahaha genius. Gotta love those concepts.

So let's work this out. yOur souls are kept at teh net. Strictly spoken it's categorical; the mind is separated from the body. Again: a symbolic ritual.

Being the WPE in this story I kinda thought it would be interesting letting you know.

Jul-27-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <MissScarlett>

I forgot something. Only the first part of my previous post is supposed to be addressed to you lol

Jul-27-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: PS my edits are not my best today but I still kinda like it ☺
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