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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Sep-21-17 | | Altairvega: 22...Na2+ 23. Kd2 Qb4+ 24 Ke2 Bb5 25 Bb5 Re4+ is what I thought. Tine to look the game |
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| Sep-21-17 | | Walter Glattke: 22.-Na2+ 23.Kd2 Qb4+ 24.Ke2 f5 25.e5? Qxf4
25.Qxa7 Rxe4+ 26.Bxe4 Qxe4+ 27.Ke2 Qxf4+ 28.Kd3 Bb5+ or 28.Ke1 Re8+ |
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| Sep-21-17 | | stst: One possible line:
22..............Na2+
23.Kd2 Qb4+
24.c3 Qxb2+
25.Bc2 Ba4
26.Kd3 Qxc2+
27.Kd4 Rxe4+
28.Rd4 b5# |
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| Sep-21-17 | | stst: 50 moves!? - more than double that of the starting 23..... Even if all agreed that should be the development, sorry to deny it - my humble opinion. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | Altairvega: The comment of the move 22 gives the answer. My first move correct, my second move less correct.. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | NBZ: Ah got the order wrong: I had Rxe4 Bxe4 Na2+, but of course Rxe4? Nc3! is excellent for White. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | bane77: I saw Rxe4 and Na2+ idea instantly but Rxe4 gives white an option to play b3 and escape with Kb2. Therefore Na2+ first, then Rxe4 and white is lost. Now if b3, Qa5+ wins. Also if Bxe4, then Qxe4 and black has many options like Qxd5, Re8, Ne5 or Bf5 with serious threats. I didn't calculate much but it is pretty obvious that white cannot defend. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | drollere: i also started with 22. .. Na2+, 23. Kd2 Qb4+, etc. with Bb5 and Re4 in reserve. the offer to exchange Q's (28. .. Qc5), declined, suggests neither player thought the combination was winning. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | diagonalley: blimey... this was/is more like a saturday puzzle... pass |
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Sep-21-17
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Does 22...Nxd5 also count as a winning (albeit second-best) line? |
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| Sep-21-17 | | newzild: <An Englishman> Unfortunately 22...Nxd5 appears to run in to 23. b3 Qb4 24. Bd2. I actually got the puzzle correct today, although I was sure it was wrong because it didn't look clear enough. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | gofer: Okay, today I don't see much. Nothing earth-shattering. So unless I am blind again
we could be looking at the following...
<22 ... Na2+>
<23 Kd2 Rxe4>
I prefer this move order to any other is it 100% forcing and makes absolutely sure that the white king is forced into the centre of the board where our rook sacrifice (opening up the e file) will have maximum benefit. Black threatens Rxf4. There don't seem an awful lot of good
moves for white. Not taking the rook is far more difficult to analyse, but Bf4 cannot be protected directly or indirectly. 24 Qf1 Rxf4 -+
24 b3? Qb4+ mating!
24 Nc3 Nxc3
25 bxc3 Rxf4 -+ or Bxe4 Nxe4 -+
24 g3 Rxf4
25 gxf4 Qxf4+
26 Ke1 Re8+
27 Be2 Bb5
28 Re2 Rxe2+ (Rd3 Qc1+ Rd1 Rxe2# or Qg2 Rxe2+ -+ or Nc3 Nxc3 -+) 29 Kd1 Qf1+! (Rxe2 Qc1#)
30 Qxf1 Ne3#
Nice!
click for larger viewSo Bf4 will have to move but there are not many good squares! 24 Bg3 Re3 -+
24 Rg5 Re5 -+
24 Bh6? Rhd8 -+
This looks okay, but I think that h6 is a very bad square for Rh1 to end up on
as black is quite likely to be able to play Nxh6 Rxh6 Qf4+ in some variations. So taking the rook seems to be the only choice!
<24 Bxe4 Qxe4>
click for larger viewBlack now threatens Qxf4+ but also threatens Qxd5+ bringing Rh8 into the action without loss of tempo,
It is difficult to see how white can defend these threats except by playing... <25 Be3 Nxe3>
<26 Qxe3 Qxg2+> 
click for larger view27 Ke1 Qxh1 -+
27 Ke2 Re8 (winning the queen as Qxe8 is the only defence) -+ <27 Qe2 Qxd5+>
28 Ke1 Qxh1 -+
28 Ke3 Qe5+
29 K move Qxe2+ leads to the same result.
<28 Qd3 Qg2+>
<29 Qe2 Qxe2>
<30 Kxe2 Bg4+>
<31 Kd2 Bxd1>
<32 Kxd1 Nb4 -+> (4 pawns up!) 
click for larger view~~~
Yep! |
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| Sep-21-17 | | morfishine: Spoiler 22...Bb5 23.Qf1 Bxd3 24.Qxd3 Rxe4 25.Nc3 Rxf4 26.Nxa4 Na2+ 27.Kd2 Rf2+ 28.Ke1 Re8+ lol
***** |
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| Sep-21-17 | | Oxspawn: If I had been black I could have lost a lot more quickly... |
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| Sep-21-17 | | mel gibson: As per the alternative text the computer says:
(22. ..
Na2+ (♘b4-a2+ ♔c1-d2 ♖e8xe4 ♘b1-c3 ♘a2xc3 ♖d1-a1 ♘c3-a2 ♖a1xa2 ♕a4xa2
♗d3xe4 ♕a2-a4 ♔d2-c3 ♕a4-a5+ ♔c3-d3 ♕a5-b4 ♕g1-d4 ♗d7-b5+ c2-c4 ♗b5xc4+
♕d4xc4 ♘g4-f2+ ♔d3-d4 ♕b4xb2+ ♕c4-c3 ♕b2xc3+ ♔d4xc3 ♘f2xh1 g2-g4 ♘h1-f2
♗e4-f5+ ♔c8-b8) +5.17/17 98
Score for Black +5.17 depth 17 |
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| Sep-21-17 | | gofer: <mel gibson> Thanks for the computer analysis! I didn't even considered that line! |
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| Sep-21-17 | | mel gibson: <Sep-21-17 gofer: <mel gibson> Thanks for the computer analysis! I didn't even considered that line!> I saw the first move but not the rook taking e4 |
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| Sep-21-17 | | mel gibson: Following the text by the actual player the computer says: 23. Nc3
(23. Nc3 (♘b1-c3 ♘b4-a2+ ♘c3xa2 ♕a4xa2 ♕g1-d4 h7-h5 c2-c4 ♗b5-d7 ♖d1-f1
♘g4-e5 ♗f4xe5 ♖e8xe5 ♖f1xf7 ♖h8-g8 ♖h1-g1 ♗d7-e8 ♖f7-f5 ♖e5-e7 ♖f5-f3
♔c8-b8 g2-g3 ♕a2-a1+ ♗d3-b1 ♕a1-a5) -0.21/17 51) score for white -0.21 depth 17
so the answer was a very poor move by black. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | Pasker: I found Bb5 quickly because its easy since the bishop is immune to capture due to check mate. So Bb5 is a good aggressive move and the rest is just natural follow up. This doesn't qualify for a puzzle. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | patzer2: Two aspects of today's Friday puzzle (22...?) and game which I found interesting were: (1) The win missed by one of the greatest players of this time, Howard Staunton, with <22...Na2+! 23. Kd2 Rxe4! -+.> Stockfish 8 gives the following winning line for Black: <22...Na2+! 23.Kd2 Rxe4! 24.Nc3> 24.Bxe4 Qxe4 25.Be3
[25.Qf1 Qd4+ 26.Ke2
(26.Ke1 Re8+ 27.Qe2 (27.Be5 Qxe5+ 28.Kd2 Qe3#) 27...Qf2+ 28.Kd2 Qxe2#) 26...Re8+ 27.Kf3 Re3+ 28.Bxe3 Qxe3#]
25...Re8 26.Rh4 Qxd5+ 27.Ke1 Qa5+ 28.Ke2 Qb5+ 29.Rd3 Rxe3+ 30.Qxe3 Nxe3 31.Na3 Qg5 32.Rxe3 Qxh4 33.g3 Qd4 34.Rd3 Bg4+ 35.Kf1 Qe4 36.Nc4 Qxc4 37.Kf2 Qc5+ 38.Re3 Qd4 39.c3 Qd2+ 40.Kg1 Qxe3+ 41.Kg2 Qe2+ 42.Kg1 Bh3 43.b3 Qg2#. <24...Nxc3 25.Bxe4 Nxe4+ 26.Ke1 Re8 27.Be3 Bb5 28.b3 Qa5+ 29.b4 Qxb4+ 30.Rd2 Qb1+ 31.Rd1 Qxc2 32.Rd2 Nxd2 33.g3> (33.Qf2 Qc1#) <33...Nf3#.> (2) Finding out about Baron Tassilo von Heydebrand und der Lasa who was apparently one of the greatest players of his day, even though he never played a single "official" tournament game. Accumulating a winning record against Staunton, Anderssen and Lowenthal <in a series of "offhand" games> was no small feat. If anyone ever puts together a list of the strongest players never to play an official tournament game, surely the Baron's name should be near the top of the list. P.S.: I missed the solution big time with 22...Nxd5? which is refuted by 23. b3! ± (+0.91 @ 32 depth, Stockfish 8.) |
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| Sep-21-17 | | kevin86: White takes over the center...and wins. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | drollere: <White takes over the center...and wins.> yes, after move 29 black's choices are limited and defensive. at each move thereafter, white methodically finds the weakest point and exploits it. |
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Sep-21-17
 | | offramp: In the old days only Anderssen could be relied on not to miss moves like 22...Na2+. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | leRevenant: In all respects an extremely puzzling puzzle, not least as we were asked to kick off with the looser's move. |
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| Sep-21-17 | | Patriot: I found 22...Na2+ 23.Kd2 but decided it wins at least a pawn after 23...Qb4+ and that was it for me. That was good enough to decide on 22...Na2+ because what else was there? It's not imperative to see 23...Rxe4 at that point and find a 'genius' move. |
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Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 31.Kc2