< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 16 OF 16 ·
|Mar-18-18|| ||Retireborn: <MissS> That sketch that Jane Seymour has (0:56) looks worryingly like Anatoly Karpov.|
|Mar-18-18|| ||Dionysius1: Crikey <Retireborn> - it looks very like Karpov, you're right.|
|Mar-18-18|| ||MissScarlett: <looks worryingly like Anatoly Karpov.>|
Hmmm, now you mention it....but the dates are all wrong, of course, and yet...1988, Karpov had been in London as recently as 1986 for the world championship match.
I remember that <Jack the Ripper> so well because I taped it when originally broadcast, and there are so many wonderful moments of high camp and unintentional humour, that snippets of dialogue remain with me. Would love to see it again, but YouTube's only got the whole thing dubbed into German!
Anyway, I think we're getting off the beaten track...
|Apr-07-18|| ||Tabanus: On Frances Carpenter Cates, from a well-sourced family tree:|
1805: Birth 18 Feb 1805 London, England
1806: Birth of Sister Emma Marsh Cates 18 Dec 1806 London
1808: Birth of Sister Catherine Parkins Cates 17 Jul 1808 London
1808: Frances baptized 15 Dec 1808 St George, Hanover Square
1811: Birth of Brother Adolphus Henry Cates abt 1811 London
1813: Birth of Sister Helen Louisa Cates 26 Dec 1813 London
1825: Marriage 10 Aug St Pancras Parish Chapel to William Nethersole
1827: Birth of Son William Edward Nethersole abt 1827 London
1831: Birth of Son Francis Nethersole abt 1831 London
1832: Birth of Daughter Frances Ada Nethersole abt 1832 London
1836: Birth of Daughter Mary Magdelene Nethersole abt 1836 London
1837: Birth of Daughter Sophia Charlotte Nethersole abt 1837 London
1841: Birth of Son Stephen Nethersole abt 1841 London
1841: Residence 1841 St Clement Danes, Middlesex
1842: Death of Husband William Nethersole Apr 1842 London
1843: Death of Son Stephen Nethersole Jul 1843 London
1849: Marriage 23 Jul 1849 Brighton to <Howard Staunton> (1810–1874)
1851: Residence Kensington, Middlesex
1856: Death of Daughter Frances Ada Nethersole Kensington London
1861: Residence 1861 Isleworth, Middlesex
1863: Death of Mother Elizabeth Goodson 3 May 1863 Kensington
1863: Death of Daughter Mary Magdelene Nethersole in Victoria, Australia
1871: Death of Sister Emma Marsh Cates Jan 1871 Kensington, London
1871: Residence 1871 Shorne, Kent, England
1873: Death of Daughter Sophia Nethersole 27 Nov 1873 Croydon, Surrey
1874: Death of Husband <Howard Staunton> 22 Jun 1874 Kensington, London
1876: Death of Son Francis Nethersole (1831–1876) 29 Jan 1876 London
1877: Death of Son William Nethersole (1827–1877) 30 Sep 1877 Cardiff, Wales
1879: Death of Brother Adolphus Henry Cates (1811–1879) Jul 1879 London
1881: Residence 1881 Paddington, London
1883: Death 7 May 1883 Kensington, London
|Apr-07-18|| ||MissScarlett: I note there's only six of the reported eight children of Frances listed here.|
|Apr-07-18|| ||MissScarlett: C.N. 10785:
<Actually Staunton was enabled to devote himself to serious chess through Lord Carlisle’s generosity. He was the son of a housemaid at Castle Howard. His mother continued to live for many years in the neighbouring village of Coneysthorpe.”’>
This wasn't what I had in mind when I half-joked: Biographer Bistro (kibitz #16723)
<The Lincoln, Rutland and Stamford Mercury>, 23rd September 1825, p.2:
<Connected with the Earl of Carlisle's death, a melancholy circumstance occurred in York last week. A Miss Monk, an elderly maiden, who kept a poulterer's shop in Peter's-lane, was in the habit of supplying his Lordship's larder, and those of many other great personages, when in York, with poultry. She had, for the present occasion, laid in and bespoken a large stock of fowls, ducks, geese, pigeons, &c., when she suddenly heard of her patron's demise, and immediately conceived that herself and the festival were irretrievably ruined. Not that even if the latter were injured by Lord Carlisle's demise she should have been plunged in the abyss of poverty — for she was passing rich — but she calculated with a gloomy imagination that she might probably not make some twenty pounds profit which she had anticipated, and rather than endure the horrors of such a calamity, death had charms. She accordingly took a strong dose of poison, and died. -— Verdict of the coroner's inquest, temporary insanity.>
|Apr-07-18|| ||offramp: Did she died?|
|May-27-18|| ||zanzibar: Courtesy of Charles Tomlinson, we have this extensive sample of Howard Staunton's handwriting, published in BCM:|
BCM v11 (1891) p411
|Aug-12-18|| ||MissScarlett: <Historical notes on some chess players> by John Townsend (Wokingham, 2014), p.128-129:|
<William Humphrey Stanton is the candidate who was tentatively proposed in the Appendix of <Notes on the life of Howard Staunton>. Since publication in 2011, no evidence or other kind of feedback has been received to the effect that the identification with Staunton is unlikely or wrong. On a positive note, some further biographical details have been added regarding several of the close family members, but not about William Humphrey Stanton himself. These will not be discussed here. Suffice it to say that the consequence of that newer information is, generally speaking, neutral, though in one area, concerning a theatre performer, it appears to favour his candidature slightly.
There was a little criticism that two names had been associated with the great chess player, i.e. Charles Sta(u)nton and William Humphrey Stanton, which was seen as contradictory. However, the claim that Staunton used the name Charles Sta(u)nton was limited to the period, 1836-1839. The name William Humphrey Stanton at baptism and on marriage, or at other times, would not necessarily be inconsistent with that. Clearly, a single individual could have used both names at different times. In any research into Staunton's past, it needs to be taken on board that he may have used other names, perhaps even several.
Any reader whose head is swimming with the various permutations of these Sta(u)ntons may find the following outline conclusions helpful:
1. Charles Staunton or Charles Stanton, who was recorded as the occupier of part of 26 Charles Street, St. James's in rate books one three separate occasions, is the same person as Howard Staunton, who was identified as the occupier in other sources.
2. Of all the persons who used the name Charles Staunton or Charles Stanton, the man referred to above as "William Charles Sta(u)nton" is the closest match to Howard Staunton that has been found during the research, and it is suspected that he was Howard Staunton.
3. This does not conflict with the possibility that William Humphrey Stanton was Howard Staunton. He remains a candidate and may have been the same person as "William Charles Sta(u)nton", or been known by the name Charles Staunton/Stanton for a limited period.
The reader may find the "Summary of references" page which follows helpful.> (tbc)
|Aug-12-18|| ||MissScarlett: I haven't been able to render these tables very artfully (the software here leaves much to be desired). Three gaps, where no <Place> has been specified, are denoted by (...).|
Summary of references to William Charles Sta(u)nton:
Year - Name - Place - Type of document
1830 W.C. Stanton Motcombe St. Land tax
1831 W.C. Stanton Motcombe St. Land tax
1831 William Henry Stanton Motcombe St. Baptism register
1834 Charles Staunton Coleshill Street Baptism register
1834 William Charles Stanton Selwood Place Rate book
1835 William Charles Stanton Selwood Place Rate book
1835 "Slounton" Selwood Place House insurance
1848 Charles Staunton (...) Marriage register
1848 "T. Staunton, Esq." (...) Newspaper
Summary of early references to Howard Staunton:
Year - Name - Place - Type of document
1836 H. Staunton, Esq. (...) List of subscribers
1837 Mr. Staunton Westminster area Bell's Life
1838 Mr. Staunton Westminster area Bell's Life
1838 Charles Staunton 26 Charles Street Rate book
1839 Mr. Staunton 26 Charles Street Bell's Life
1839 Charles Stanton 26 Charles Street Rate book
1839 Charles Staunton 26 Charles Street Rate book
1839 Mr. Staunton Westminster area Bell's Life
1839 Howard Staunton Esq. 26 Charles Street Bell's Life
1840 Howard Staunton Esq. 26 Charles Street Court guide
Summary of references to William Humphrey Stanton:
Year - Name - Place - Type of document
1812 William Humphrey Stanton Drury Lane Baptism register
1840 William Humphrey Stanton Paddington Marriage register>
|Aug-20-18|| ||MissScarlett: I'll return to Townsend's findings on Staunton's origins, but here's a beautiful item of useless trivia that <Edward Winter> would kill for.|
The correspondence sections of all Staunton's <ILN> columns are online (I only just discovered this):
Here's the one for December 20th 1873:
At the bottom, amongst the list of correctly submitted solutions to a chess problem lies: <J. R. Jellicoe and S. C. Coker --- H.M.S. Britannia>.
Jellicoe is such an unusual name I knew immediately it had to be <Admiral of the Fleet John Rushworth Jellicoe, 1st Earl Jellicoe, GCB, OM, GCVO, SGM, DL> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_...). At the time though, Jellicoe would just have turned 14.
|Aug-21-18|| ||Granny O Doul: Ann Jellicoe wrote "The Knack...and How to Get It" which became a Richard Lester film. And her name rhymes with "Fra Angelico".|
|Aug-22-18|| ||Dionysius1: Hi <MissScarlett>. What makes you think the name Jellicoe was that rare? Or are you just trailing your coat?|
|Aug-22-18|| ||MissScarlett: <Trailing one's coat>, I confess, is an expression that's new to me, but one to which I am now happily acquainted. Needless to say, no subterfuge was intended. I maintain the rarity of said name.|
|Aug-31-18|| ||Dionysius1: Hi <MissScarlet> :-)|
|Sep-12-18|| ||MissScarlett: From Staunton's column in the <ILN> of April 30th 1859, p.430, a 'correspondent' writes:|
<EUPOLIS remarks, "That a party of chess amateurs should invite Mr. Morphy is right and becoming : he is a foreigner, and though -
'Vixere fortes ante Agamemnona
perhaps no player of his years has ever equalled him, but that a friendly entertainment of this kind should be magnified into a 'Grand Demonstration,' as if the winner of some half dozen chess matches were the hero of a hundred battles, or had invented the steam-engine or built the Brittania-bridge, is sufficiently ridiculous to turn a graceful and well-meant compliment into absolute burlesque. What a pity it is that the small clique of professional chess 'masters' who perform kotoo before Mr. Morphy, or whoever happens to be their top-sawyer at the moment, cannot be satisfied to give him unlimited kudos among themselves without blowing a penny trumpet and calling on all the world to do homage to their divinity also!">
<"Vixere fortes ante Agamemnona
multi; sed omnes illacrimabiles
urgentur ignotique longa
nocte, carent quia vate sacro.”
(“There lived many brave men before Agamenon,
but they are all buried unwept and unknown in long night,
because they lack a holy poet.”)>
Online dictionaries fail to identify <kotoo>; Google turns up the expression, <perform kotoo> in a couple of obscure books dating from 1836 and 1841, respectively, so evidently it had some minor currency in Victorian vernacular.
|Sep-12-18|| ||Sally Simpson: Hi Miss S,
Do not know if this helps.
Kotoo - to bow down before, to cringe, to flatter. From a Chinese ceremony.
|Sep-12-18|| ||beatgiant: <kotoo>
The original Chinese is 磕頭, and the most common English rendering today is kow-tow. Yes, it means to bow down before.
|Sep-13-18|| ||MissScarlett: Thanks, both. I thought it might be Japanese.
<Kowtow, which is borrowed from kau tau in Cantonese (koutou in Mandarin Chinese), is the act of deep respect shown by prostration, that is, kneeling and bowing so low as to have one's head touching the ground. An alternative Chinese term is ketou; however, the meaning is somewhat altered: kou (叩) has the general meaning of knock, whereas ke (磕) has the general meaning of "touch upon (a surface)", tou (頭) meaning head.
In East Asian culture, the kowtow is the highest sign of reverence. It was widely used to show reverence for one's elders, superiors, and especially the Emperor, as well as for religious and cultural objects of worship.>
Game Collection: If chess was a religion, Morphy would be God.
|Sep-13-18|| ||zanzibar: Another interesting tidbit/find by <MissS>.|
While <kooto> caught her eye in the correspondence, <top sawyer> caught mine.
I had to admit that I'm more familiar with a <Tom Sawyer> than a <top sawyer>:
From Merriam-Webster online:
1 : a worker at a sawpit who stands above the timber — compare bottom sawyer
2 British : a person in a position of advantage or eminence
I assume the 2nd, British, meaning is inferred from the quote.
* * * * *
And if one looks up just <sawyer> there is an interesting third definition:
<3 : a tree fast in the bed of a stream with its branches projecting to the surface and bobbing up and down with the current>
A totally new word to me, though I'm quite familiar with the concept!
|Sep-13-18|| ||MissScarlett: Compare with top-dog: https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings...|
|Sep-13-18|| ||Sally Simpson: That post with the letter from EUPOLIS.
Howard Staunton (kibitz #399)
It was not unknown for Staunton to print letters in his column from fictitious readers.
page 11, 'Howard Staunton, the English World Chess Champion' by Keene and Coles.'
"He [Staunton] hit out at his enemies, real or supposed, under the cover of answers to correspondents.
There were people who refused to credit the existence of these correspondents."
I wonder if this was Staunton having a vent or did 'EUPOLIS' really exist. He (or indeed She) uses a wonderful turn of phase - almost Shakespearian.
|Sep-14-18|| ||MissScarlett: It would probably be more accurate to say that Staunton occasionally printed a correspondent's letter that he hadn't written himself.|
|Sep-14-18|| ||offramp: |
What do you think of all these malcontents, nay-sayers and jobbernowls who say that Staunton wrote letters to himself?
Mr Road-Used, 2 Exit, Freeway.>
Dear Mr R.Used,
These people are clearly nay-sayers and jobbernowls.
Normal, sensible human beings would give them the bum's rush (q.v.).
|Sep-14-18|| ||ughaibu: Unfortunately I can only think of unfunny plays on words about mandrills and scarlet rumps.|
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