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Robert James Fischer vs Viktor Korchnoi
Rovinj/Zagreb (1970), Rovinj/Zagreb YUG, rd 16, May-04
Sicilian Defense: Fischer-Sozin Attack. Leonhardt Variation (B88)  ·  1/2-1/2
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-14-15  Howard: May I respectfully point out that when Petrosian beat Korchnoi in the Candidates, he only won by one point.

And, in 1978, Karpov only won by one point, too.

Conclusion ? Korchnoi was certainly capable of becoming World Champion. Whether he could have beaten Fischer though will always be debatable.

May-14-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: <Howard: May I respectfully point out that when Petrosian beat Korchnoi in the Candidates, he only won by one point.>

...and lost to Fischer by four.

May-14-15  RookFile: keypusher, congratulations on understanding what the question was.

Who knows? Maybe I've had an epiphany and have decided that Korchnoi would win. He has all the right qualifications: he's lost plenty of matches. Therefore his level of greatness must go up. It's one of Newton's laws of the universe.

May-14-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: < RookFile: keypusher, congratulations on understanding what the question was. Who knows? Maybe I've had an epiphany and have decided that Korchnoi would win. He has all the right qualifications: he's lost plenty of matches. Therefore his level of greatness must go up. It's one of Newton's laws of the universe.>

And as in the old days, when it's pointed out that you're being dumb, you double down. It's like 2010 RookFile is back.

May-14-15  A.T PhoneHome: <RookFile> It's true that he lost matches, but most of them were lost by small margins.

If one merely looks at the outcomes (win-loss-draw), then it's easier to ignore the potent danger of Korchnoi's chess playing.

Korchnoi would have been a tough match opponent for Fischer; that's something one cannot overlook. Of course that isn't to say he'd beat Fischer, but he would have fair chances at least.

May-14-15  RookFile: Keypusher continues to impress by demonstrating he is aware of what the question is.
May-14-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi disasterion,

Thanks I suspected as much yet the human as Black set a nasty plausible trap with Rg8. Offering a free Rook with the skewer Qa8+

Computers are great at tactics and spotting shots very deep. However if there is the slightest (no matter how slight) flaw. It's rejected.

They do not know how to play a bad position. They just give up.

More here.

W So vs S Megaranto, 2008

May-15-15  Howard: Still say that the outcome of Fischer-Korchnoi, 1971 or of Fischer-Korchnoi, 1975 would not have been a foregone conclusion, despite the earlier point of Petrosian's losing to Fischer by a whooping four points.
May-15-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: There's no measurable metric by which anyone beats Fischer by 1972.

Fischer was Carlsen sans tie-breaks.

May-15-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: <RookFile: Keypusher continues to impress by demonstrating he is aware of what the question is.>

<Petrosianic:> probably knows what the question is, and just doesn't like it.

When it's required you make Fischer lose, it's best you make him not show up, vs. critiquing his "weak" play.

May-15-15  Petrosianic: <(In particular, for the first time in his life, he'd stopped working on the game.) Pretending he could somehow have been dragged to the board, no one knows how well he would have played, which is why predicting these imaginary matches is a waste of time.>

Not entirely a waste, but a question about a fictitious person who never existed (i.e. a Fischer who didn't stop studying chess in 1972). There have been so many historical "What If" scenarios over the years, that we can't object to that one. It only becomes pointless when we confuse the fictional person with the real one.

<No one on this page said anything so simple-minded as that. You are making yourself look like a fool.>

He's not doing it deliberately.

May-15-15  RookFile: Fischer went from 1800 to US champ in 18 months. Is it a big deal that he took some time off from the game? The simple answer is: No.
May-15-15  A.T PhoneHome: Fischer made his decision after the match in 1972. He stopped practicing and playing altogether and no one can be blamed for that; the only person who wasn't ready to compromise was Fischer himself.

People should consider that when Fischer made the voluntary choice to quit chess after 1972, the one thing in the world he loved and was so good at...

THAT decision too may have taken serious willpower from Fischer just like focusing on perfecting his chess did. I think he DID want to play more, but he also saw the detrimental side of continuing to do so.

May-15-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: The very idea of compromise was anathema to Fischer, as was the idea of facing life in chess after achieving his cherished goal, because there was nowhere to go but down, having reached the top of Mt Olympus.
May-15-15  A.T PhoneHome: Indeed, we all have that one thing in life we want to do before we die and for Fischer it was the World Chess Championship.

After that he conjectured that there was nothing left to prove and to him, of course, it made perfect sense; him reaching what he had wanted all along fulfilled the purpose.

After that the incentive was gone.

Jun-04-16  ewan14: Geoff , sorry Sally , what happens after white wins the rook on g8 ?

Thanks

Tommy

Jun-04-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi Ewan,

The position and what happens if WHite takes the Rook is here:

W So vs S Megaranto, 2008 (kibitz #2)

Jun-05-16  ewan14: Nice , thanks Geoff
Mar-22-17  The Boomerang: "There's no measurable metric by which anyone beats Fischer by 1972. Fischer was Carlsen sans tie-breaks."

Fischer Fever is strong with this one..

Aug-17-17  ewan14: Spassky could have beaten him if he had got his act together , and Fischer was not being a pain in the neck
Feb-26-18  Allanur: According to Victor Korchnoi's book chess is my life, Fischer told Korchnoi after the game that he was playing for a draw. According to the book, had Korchnoi been able to defeat Fischer and the remaning two games he could have catched Fischer for the first place. Fischer drew this game, then lost to Kovacevic but finished the tournament on top. Also, according to the book, Fischer was very frank with Korchnoi and they occasionally conversed and discussed chess events.
Feb-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Allanur: According to Victor Korchnoi's book chess is my life, Fischer told Korchnoi after the game that he was playing for a draw. According to the book, had Korchnoi been able to defeat Fischer and the remaning two games he could have catched Fischer for the first place. Fischer drew this game, then lost to Kovacevic but finished the tournament on top. Also, according to the book, Fischer was very frank with Korchnoi and they occasionally conversed and discussed chess events.>

Assuming they've got the order right, this game took place in the next-to-last round. Fischer would have had 12 points and Korchnoi had 9.5. Fischer's loss to Kovacevic had taken place in Round 8.

It doesn't look as if Fischer is playing for a draw from the beginning, but at some point he may have decided a draw was the best he could do.

Feb-26-18  Allanur: @keypusher, <Assuming they've got the order right, this game took place in the next-to-last round. Fischer would have had 12 points and Korchnoi had 9.5. Fischer's loss to Kovacevic had taken place in Round 8.

It doesn't look as if Fischer is playing for a draw from the beginning, but at some point he may have decided a draw was the best he could do.>

If so, I must have misrecalled it. I should check the book again.

Checking now. Page 70.

"I recall the finish of the tournament. I was fighting for second place and there was possibility that I could catch Fischer. Only to do this I had first to beat him and then to win my two remaining games."

Now, where is the confusion? If any, I realized I did not retell correctly. When Korchnoi told about Fischer's loss, he tells this event as "During the tournament..." Not as "after our draw" though Korchnoi says that the game between Fischer and Kovacevic was postponed and being played in a free day.

Korchnoi goes on to say he lost to Bertok after he drew Fischer and as a result he took second place (shared with Gligoric, Smyslov and Hort. All were two points behind the American.

About Fischer's intentions not resembling to be a draw from the beginning Korchoi says "This admission surprised me; in a Sicilian he, as usual, developed his bishop at c4, aiming for attacking position but, no attacked resulted and Black gained a very slightly superior endgame."

Feb-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  4tmac: Maybe that wild Browne-Fischer game was not finished yet. If Bobby loses that his standing might be in doubt? .... but not sure
Feb-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Korchnoi goes on to say he lost to Bertok after he drew Fischer and as a result he took second place (shared with Gligoric, Smyslov and Hort. All were two points behind the American.>

That seems to be the difference -- chessgames has Bertok-Korchnoi (and Browne-Fischer) on May 3, and the Fischer-Korchnoi game starting on May 4. So it seems to have a different order than Korchnoi.

Also, 4tmac is surely correct that Browne-Fischer hadn't finished when Fischer-Korchnoi began. That would mean that Fischer's score going into the Korchnoi game (assuming cg is right and Korchnoi is wrong about the order in which games were played) was not 12 as I said, but 11.5 with a probably lost adjournment.

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