< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Oct-25-10|| ||elohah: To be cont...|
|Oct-28-10|| ||elohah: 60MG p. 109: Between busses, I suddenly notice that Bobby has baited note [C, so that only [B will be the bust. But I draw ahead...|
5... If 5...e6, 6 ed cd 7 d4 is reasonable, since 6 e5 Ne7! will only get, at best, Nimzo-Capa [NY '27].
After 5...Nf6 [text move], we're not that impressed with Spassky-Reshko, since Black can still kick d4 hard. So just 6 ed cd 7 d4 again. Bobby gives 6 g3, then doesn't mention 6...d4! as a response. But after 5...Nf6, Bobby actually plays...
6 ? Nooooo, Bobby! This move is just fundamentally wrong - turning White's KB into a pawn.
7 ? [Yes, I have given BACK TO BACK question marks on Bobby's moves!] 7 g4 [Bobby later played this at Netanya '68], or 7 e5 [Spassky-Reshko, without d4].
13 (note after diag. ) Bobby convincingly refutes a comment I made on his other game with Petrosian, where the ...g5 cipher was played, tho Simagin thought 14 f4 as well.
60MG p. 109 [top note]: Evidently on 17...g4? 18 Nd2 Rg8 19 Rfc1, Black lacks a long term strategical plan.
Note after Black's 15th: 17 b5! is an improvement over 17 Nc4. This is again given in the very next note.
17 Remove Bobby's question mark to the text move, remove the exclam to 17 fe, and place a question mark after it.
Note [A: The weakest of Black's alternatives. Bobby fails to mention 18 Qg4+! Qe6 19 Qxe6+ fxe6 20 ab (plus), or 18 Nc4 Qxg3 19 ab (or 19 Rxf7), with 19...b5 being answered in either case with 20 e5! bxc4 21 Qe4! [with the dead hand B still playing anchor relay.]
[B: The strongest line, busting 17...fe?, since Bobby misses the obvious 18...b5! (after his 18 Nc4). Then 19 Nxa3 a6 (idea ...Nxe5), sets up a solid enuf defensive screen, and Black is up a pawn.
[C: Bobby's parenthesed note (beginning with 20...Qxb4) is key here. Apparently 'penetrates' also means making a backward diagonal retreating move, so that after, for example, 22...Qd6 23 Rfb1 Rd7 24 Qc4! (preventing the necessary consolidating move ...a6), or 23...
Qc7 24 Qb3!, etc. (plus for White).
|Oct-29-10|| ||elohah: [D: isn't good enuf either, so only [B busts.
38 Why doesn't Qd8+ win? I don't know, and I'm not up to an extensive analysis just now. It doesn't get all four Q's off, is one problem. And you don't really need to analyze it. Just analyze it like Purdy suggested doing endgame analysis. Just set up various positions in the single Q ending with the g-pawn, ex: WQ/h6; p/g4 (or even g5), or...WQ/f6; p/g4, or...WQ/g8 (the placement that maybe is best) p/g4 (even g5?), and see whether White can (A) shepherd the pawn home , at the same time as (B) he also stops all the BQ's counterplay along the h and f files as well as behind the pawn!
There! In this case, the Purdy 'talking analysis' was indeed quicker! We're done. And as you can see, it's a tall order for White.
Specific moves? 38 Qd8+ Qac7, and if 39 Qxd6+ Kxd6! 40 Qf6+ and g5 is nothing, since ther'll be counterplay with ...Qh7! to stop. That's one example. Another is 39 Qxc7+ Qxc7 40 g5 Qf7! Another is 38 Qd8+ Qac7 39 Qdf8 Qce7, etc. (pointing at g5, f6 later...). So I don't think it wins.
|Oct-29-10|| ||elohah: 60MG p. 113, (note after diag.)
'The tournament bulletins suggest 42 c5! Qxc5 43 Qg8+ Ka3 44 Qc2 Qb4 45 Qa8+ Qa4 46 Q2xa4+? (my mark)
What about 46 Qc1+!, Bobby?
46...Kb3 (not 46...Kb4? 47 Qb2+, winning a piece) 47 Qg8+ Kb4 48 Qb2+ Kc5 49 g5.
This looks like it wins.
|Oct-29-10|| ||elohah: Sorry for the express analysis at the end here, but the library's closing. This last note could probably be the most important of all...|
|Nov-25-10|| ||Toliman: Strange how when the 4 are onboard they don't need to be moved. 39.g5! won. White's are on the propper squares.|
|Nov-25-10|| ||Toliman: 42.c5! Qxc5 43.Qg8+ Ka3 44.Qc2 Qb4 45.g5! would have won|
|Nov-25-10|| ||Toliman: The "longer you wait" the harder the win becomes. The win in elohah last line is certainly problematic but if instead 47.Qb8+ Qb4 48.Qg8+ Ka4 49.g5! does indeed seem to win|
|Nov-25-10|| ||Toliman: After 42.c5 Qde6! 43.Qb8+ (Be2 Kb4!) Nb5 44.Be2 Kc2! 45.Qa8 Kb1 46.Qa5 Qxc5 47.Qe1+ Qc1 48.Qxc1+ Kxc1 49.g5! may still win|
|Nov-30-10|| ||elohah: Bobby just didn't want to win!|
|Jun-01-11|| ||say it with a smile: The King Walk reminds me of the song "Walk on the Wild Side" by Lou Reed :-)|
|Jun-01-11|| ||parisattack: Fischer apparently believed the Two Knights against the C-K was the way and the light early on but finally decided to move on as the bottom line never looked too good.|
There is a sideline C-K with 3. Qf3 leaving the KN for later development. I always thought it had some potential and there is a small book on it with some fascinating lines.
|Mar-12-12|| ||Paraconti: Fischer just liked to play this line back then because it brought him into a sort of reversed KID plus a tempo as white.|
|Mar-12-12|| ||King Death: <parisattack: Fischer apparently believed the Two Knights against the C-K was the way and the light early on but finally decided to move on as the bottom line never looked too good...>|
His stubbornness was so well known that even Keres played the Caro Kann against him when normally he'd have played 1...e5.
<There is a sideline C-K with 3. Qf3 leaving the KN for later development. I always thought it had some potential and there is a small book on it with some fascinating lines.>
Who published a book on 3.Qf3? If I remember right 3...de 4.Ne4 Nd7 5. d4 Ndf6 does well against this.
|Mar-12-12|| ||ephesians: I think Fischer hadn't had time to really come up with his best weapon yet against the Caro-Kann, but had spent a lot of time studying King's Indian games. He figured he could transpose the game into that type of a game. Only the very best in the world could show him that it wasn't quite correct.|
|Aug-29-12|| ||TheFocus: This is game 16 in Fischer's <My 60 Memorable Games>.|
|Oct-29-12|| ||Conrad93: I don't see what's remarkable about it. The second queen was useless being stuck behind her own pawns.|
|Apr-05-13|| ||VivaCristoRey: True, Fischer traps in his KB, but it is more than just a pawn - in addition to supporting the weak d3 pawn that keeps his position together, it guards the king, particularly when 31. ... a1=Q would otherwise be a tempo-gaining check and win for black.|
|Jul-11-13|| ||Joshka: <WhiteRook48> <48.Qf2?? White could have won the black queen with 48.dxe4> I don't think so, 48...Nxe4+ 49. Kh4 Nxd2 50. g5 Nxf1! 51. g6 Ne3! 52. Kg5 d3 wins. Fischer in his notes from 2007.|
|Aug-04-13|| ||plang: The idea behind the Two Knights line is to discourage the development of the Black queen bishop to f5; Fischer gives 3..dxe 4 Nxe4..Bf5 5 Ng3..Bg6 6 h4..h6 7 Ne5..Bh7 8 Qh5..g6 9 Bc4..e6 10 Qe2 with a huge advantage for White. Fischer used this system a lot early in his career with little success though, overall, the system has scored pretty well for White. The variation is completely out of fashion today; it isn't even mentioned in any of the Caro Kann books that I own. Fischer was partial to 7 g3 though he had little success with it; 7 Bd2, 7 a3 and 7 Be2 are all more popular and have scored better as well. This game was played in round 16; in round 2 Petrosian had played 13..g5 against Fischer and had gone on to win. Petrosian had several opportunities to contest the f-file with ..Rdf8 but instead played for complications with 24..Qxb4 which led to White getting a dangerous initiative. 28 Qf6 would have been a stronger move; ie. 28 Qf6..Qc5 29 Qg7..Ra8 30 Rb7+..Ka6 31 Qc7..Rhc8 32 Rb5! and wins.|
|Dec-30-13|| ||Howard: So 39.g5 would have WON ?|
|Sep-17-14|| ||kingscrusher: Bobby Fischer's amazing Four Queens Game against "Iron Tiger" Tigran Petrosian! |
My detailed video annotation of this game is quite popular on Youtube (over 122k views so far as of Sept 2014 ):
Hope some of you might like this
|Nov-22-14|| ||yurikvelo: http://pastebin.com/jBYsBusq
this game analysis
|Nov-22-14|| ||utssb: <eloha> your annotations are insane|
|Nov-23-14|| ||Joshka: <Howard> <So 39.g5 would have WON ?> According to Bobby, it's a forced win for white.|
" The greedy, "purely capitalistic" 39. g5!! is a forced win. Continue 39...Kb4 40. Qf8 Qae7 41. Qff6 Nd1 and a key move here is 42. Bh3! stopping what would otherwise become an eventual check on the h-file. Black must play 42...Ka4 (unpinning) 43. Kh2! Qdxf6 44. Qxf6
...Qh7 45. Qxe5 Qh5 46. Qxd4 wins in all variations.
The older 39. Qh2 from 'My 60 Memorable Games' is too passive and focuses on preventing the Black King's march further into my own camp. The answer must be 39...Qa1! 40. g5 Qc1! and now pushing again loses to an incredible staircase mating procedure without a single queen being captured (41. g6?? Qf6! 42. Qf2 Ne2+!! 43. Qxe2 Qfg5+ 44. Kh1 44. g2 walks into the mating sequence from 46...ce3+ on in the main line 44...Qh4+ 45. Kg1 Qg3+ Qg2 Qce3+ 47. Kh1 Qh6+ 48. Qh3 Qf3+! 49. Kh2 Qhf4+ 50. Kg1 Q4e3+ 51. Kh2 Qff2+ 52. Kh1 Qg1 mate)
so now White's game is considerably more difficult. From this point I can only see 41. Qg7!
Kb4 and now 42. g6 allows 42...Qe3+ (42. Qf2 offers White no advantage after 42...Qd8! hitting the g-Pawn twice 43. Qg2 Nd1 stopping the return of Qf2 and Black will be able to check via ...Qe3 anyway) 43. Kh1 Qf3+ 44. Qg2 Qdf6! 45. Qb7+ Ka3 (Petrosian's King on a3 would bring back a recent bad memory) and 46. Qa7+ Na4 47. Qe7+! Kb3 48. Qxf6 Qxf6 draws." Bobby from his notes in 2007.
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