Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
Carl Schlechter vs Jacques Mieses
"Of Mieses and Men" (game of the day Nov-07-2005)
St. Petersburg (1909), St. Petersburg RUE, rd 5, Feb-21
Scandinavian Defense: Main Lines. Mieses Variation (B01)  ·  0-1


Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 63 times; par: 25 [what's this?]

explore this opening
find similar games 26 more Schlechter/J Mieses games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Olga is our default viewer, but we offer other choices as well. You can use a different viewer by selecting it from the pulldown menu below and pressing the "Set" button.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-07-05  Calculon: <you vs yourself> Won't white lose another pawn after black takes the queen? The pawns at b2 and e5 are attacked and both cannot be defended.

White's pawns are all isolated while black still has a strong pawn structure.

It looks like a fairly easy win for black.

Nov-07-05  you vs yourself: <Calculon> I included one of the pawns lost at b2 or e5 when I said black won 2 pawns. Maybe the endgame is won, but there's no forced win here though. So, I might've played a few more moves to make sure black doesn't blunder away his advantage.
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <chess crazy> Just looked at your game. Great job of punishing 7. d4? After 7...exd5! your opponent was busted.

If instead, your opponent had played the line 7. Bg5! Be7 8. Nd2 =, then you'd have had a game on your hands. Always a good idea to look at your games for your opponent's best moves, especially if they prepare and play you again

Nov-08-05  Averageguy: <chesscrazy>Good game, doesn't seem much to improve on, you showed good tactical skills. Here are what I think are possible improvements. 9...d5 looks better, opening the game more to exploit your superior development. The simple 13...Bxf2+ or 13...Nxf2 looked better than retreating. You missed 19...Qxd3 exploiting the pins on the queen and bishop. You won the rook anyway but 20.Rxc3 would have saved it for white. 30...Qxe3+ forces mate after 31.Kxd1 Rd8+ 32.Kc2 (32.Bd3 Rxd3+ 33.Kc2 Rd2+ 34.Kc/b1 Qe1#)32...Rd2+ 33.Kc/b1 Qe1#
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <Averageguy> In <chesscrazy>'s game, Black wins after <20. Rxc3> if he replies 20...Nd4! to attack and win the Bishop pinned on e2.
Nov-09-05  Averageguy: <patzer2>Hmm, can't white simply play 21.Be3 after 20...Nd4 ? I don't see anything for black here. Of course, he is still winning, but I don't think there is a win on the spot.
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: After 26..Qxg3!, Schlecter, seeing the damage being caused by Meises' active Knight and Queen, is rumored to have said "I hate those Mieses' two pieces!"

This line was later used in a slightly different version in an American cartoon show per <Jinx the cat "hated meeces to pieces," but loved his Kellogg's Raisin Bran.

"Pixie And Dixie" was a segment of Hanna-Barbara's first hit cartoon, "The Huckleberry Hound Show."

The Huckleberry Hound Show" was William Hanna and
Joseph Barbera's second made-for-TV series . The series premiered in 1958 and starred a good-natured hound dog with a Southern drawl, Huckleberry Hound.

Sponsored nationally by Kellogg's Cereals, the show was the first fully animated series made strictly for television, in contrast to those hosted by live performers or ones with a cinematic history.

Pixie and Dixie" and "Mr. Jinks" were the first additional segments on the 30-minute program. Pixie and Dixie were two little mice who were constantly menaced by their playful nemesis. Jinks the Cat, who "hates meeces to pieces.">

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <Averageguy> In the game in question, look at the position after 21. Be3 Nxe2 22. Kxe2 Nxh5 . It's a win on the spot, only unless White wishes to continue playing with a huge material deficit in a clearly lost position.
Nov-10-05  Averageguy: <patzer2> Yes, this is winning, but not as much as after 19...Qxd3, which wins a whole rook as well as the queen. Your line only wins a pawn.
Jan-22-07  Fast Gun: At first glance I thought that 27. Qd4 would have held the game, but then I saw Nh2+ 28.Kg1 Nf3+ winning the Queen (win by pin & Knight fork)
Oct-06-08  Whitehat1963: Spectacular finish after 22. e5. It appears Mieses saw the entire combination from there, as it seems all but forced. Bloody brilliant!
Oct-06-08  ughaibu: Have a look at this, from a blindfold match: Schlechter vs Mieses, 1909
Oct-06-08  Whitehat1963: <ughaibu> Amen! That is an amazing game you linked to. And NO ONE has kibitzed on it!
Apr-12-15  scormus: Interesting and instructive puzzle, largely for the pitfalls awaiting both players (and puzzle solvers).

Just looking at it 22 ... Bxe5 seemed right. If 23 exd5 I first thought ... Rxd1+ 24 Rxd1 Ne3 25 Rxe3 Qxe3+. However, 23 ... Nxe5 24 Qc3 Ncf3+ 25 Qxf3 is better, leaving B with R+3p vs 2N. Problem solved? If so remarkably easy for a Sunday.

But instead B went 23 ... Qh4 and W went 24 Rg3? allowing an easy way for B to get a winning advantage. Surely W has a better defense. Yes, an engine check gives 24 Qc5 and a modest advantageous to B.

But W did not need to play 23 exd5 at all. Engine gives 23 h3 as W's best damage control move, also with a modest advantage to B. However that does look to give W a difficult time over the next moves so would have unappealing to play OTB.

So with best play B has a clear edge, chiefly beacuse he's a pawn up and can win another, while W has little compensation.

Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Black has a bishop and a pawn for a knight.

White threatens 23.exd6.

The first idea that comes to mind is 23... Bxe5 to deliver a knight fork on e5:

A) 24.dxe5 Nxe5 (24... Rxd1+ 25.Rxd1 Ne3 26.Rxe3 (26.Qc1 Qxg2#) 26... Qxe3+ 27.Kh1 Qxe5 28.Qd3 looks bad for Black)

A.1) 25.Rg3 Qxg3 (threatens 26... Qe1#, 26... Nxc4 and 26... Nf3) 26.Nxg3 Nxc4 wins an exchange and two pawns (27.Rxc4 Rxd1+).

A.2) 25.Qc3 Nxf3+ wins again an exchange and two pawns (26.Qxf3 Qxd1).

A.3) 25.h4 Nxf3+ 26.Kf2 Nxh5 - + [R+3P vs N].

B) 24.h4 Qxh4 25.dxe5 Qe1+ 26.Rf1 Qxf1+ 27.Kxf1 Rxd1+ 28.Rxd1 Ne3+ 29.Kf1 Nxc4 - + [3P].

C) 24.h3 Bxd4+

C.1) 25.Nxd4 Ne5 26.Qc3 Nxf3+ 27.Nxf3 Qh6 28.Ne5 Re7 and Black has a rook and three pawns for two knights but its position looks unconfortable.

C.2) 25.Kf1 Nh2+ wins the exchange at least.

C.3) 25.Kh1 Ne3 26.Nxe3 Bxe3 - + [B+3P vs N].

Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <22...Bxe5> I settled on this move though 22...Nxe5 23.dxe5 Bxe5 looks playable

23.dxe5 forced, but I then went with <23...Nxe5>

click for larger view

This looks awkward for White. Black is up 3-pawns for the piece and is winning an exchange back

Unfortunately, I got sidetracked with an inferior defense noting: 24.Rg3 Qxg3 25.Nxg3 Nxc4 and Black is up 3-pawns plus an exchange; However, much better is 24.Qf4 :(

Hats off to Mieses!

Interesting, in the game, Black goes immediately to h-file with 23...Qh4, yet the same theme that I focused on
in my inferior defense [ie: exchange Q for R on <g3>] is seen to win material; This is instructive in that move-order is critical here: Mieses threatens a powerful check

<scormus> Thanks for looking at 23.h3


Apr-12-15  Pedro Fernandez: << OhioChessFan>: I know it didn't work, but what was the supposed point of Rg3?> Yeah! My variation was 22...Bxe5 23.dxe5 Qh4 <(the last two black moves are not so hard to find since we need activate our rook on d7-square)>, but instead of 24.Rg3 I did play 24.h3 Qe1+

click for larger view

.Rf1 Qxf1+ 26.Kxf1 Rxd1+ 27.Rxd1 and

click for larger view

Apr-12-15  erniecohen: <morfishine> Your instincts were right - the obvious move 23...♘xe5, is far better than the game continuation. After 23...♕h4 24. ♕c5 ♕xh2+ 25. ♔f1 ♕h1+ 26. ♘g1 ♘h2+ 27. ♔f2 ♘xf3 28. ♘xf3, the aborted hunt has yielded no more material than 23...♘xe5, but has left Black out of position for the coming counterattack.

Simply a cooked puzzle today.

Apr-12-15  Amarande: <al wazir> Every chess program I've ever used automatically claims the draw when the third repetition occurs.

That's because most of the time in a game *in isolatio*, by that point you're usually best off doing so; exceptions usually occur in the greater setting of a tournament, such as with Rotlewi vs Teichmann, 1911 where the extra half-point was thought to be worth taking a risk for due to the score.

In addition, as with this game and Rotlewi-Teichmann, or even Reti vs Alekhine, 1925 where White dodged the third repetition altogether it's notable that stretching for that extra point frequently results in a loss, with (Rotlewi was hit especially hard in his game; I would have to go back through the St Pete 1909 tournament book to see how this one impacted Schlechter, or the Baden-Baden 1925 games round by round for Reti) sometimes a significant further slip back in the tournament!

(Furthermore, in the case of computers specifically, generally speaking they are already assessing the game as drawn as soon as the second repetition, for given the nature of engine analysis if a better move were to be found, the engine would have found it the first time the position occurred.)

Apr-12-15  devere: A strange game! Schlechter plays like a patzer. The following year he almost takes Lasker's World Championship away. Was Schlechter hiding his prep? LOL. On the 22nd move Black is already a pawn up, and 22...Bxe5 wins another pawn. White's best reply is 23.h3, and after 23.dxe5 Black's best is simply 23...Nxe5. A strange game! Maybe the food in Russia didn't agree with Schlechter?
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: A bit too famous. Black could have played also 23....Nxe5 24.Qc3 Nxf3+ 25.Qxf3 Rhd8 with Rook and 3P for 2 Knights but Mieses choice, though allowing white with best defence to resist longer, was perfectly sound. After 24.Qc5 black can play 24...Qe1+ 25.Rf1 Qxe2 26.Qxa7 Qa6 and black has an extra Pawn. Wheather it is enough for win is difficult to say but he has fair chance to win the game here. 24.Qc3 allows 24...Qxh2+ 25.Kf1 Qh1+ 26.Ng1 Nh2+ with next 27...Nxf3 once again with Rook and three Pawns for two Knights, though here black pieces are less coordinated and white pieces are more active than in the line after 23...Nxe5 mentioned above. Still it is good for black. Schlechter's 24.Rg3(?) should have been defence against threat 24...Qe1+ (apparent form line 24.h3 Qe1+ 25.Rf1 Qxf1+ 26.Kxf1 Rxd1+ 27.Rxd1 Ne3+ and 28...Nxc4 ) but it did not work as Mieses demonstrated on the board.
Apr-12-15  scassislusor: Jacques Mieses, in later life, was once introduced as "Mr. Mieses" (pronounced by the introducer "Myses") Mieses corrected him, "Rather I am Meister Mieses!" The Ducheyne-Mieses introductory "Handbuch", started about 1890, has been continued to this day as one of the best one volume books of instruction for the ambitious amateur. May have been the book that inspired the late, great Gisela Gresser, in her 30's, to take up chess competition.
Apr-12-15  TheaN: Sunday 13 April 2015 <22....?>

It's very late in the night (1:22am) but I promised myself to have a thorough look at this Sunday puzzle because I'm on 6/6 this week.

In all fairness, it seems as if this Sunday is more of a straightforward and forced nature than most; usually they contain speculative sacrifices that don't really have to accepted. In the position at hand, black is looking at two strong center pawns locking in the bishop and a white major pieces battery on the c-file, but black is a pawn up. This suggests black resolves at least one strength of white with <22....Bxe5!>.

Why move away if you can break through? Typical of this sunday is that there are no real declines for white: black simply picks up white's strongpoint without compensation, threatening Bxh2+ and black wins fairly easily.

<23.dxe5 Nxe5> this forks Qc4 and Rf3, and black just obtained the open d-file. Because g2 is pinned, white has two alternatives: defending the rook with his queen or counterattacking the black queen. The latter certainly does not work:

A) <24.Rg3? Qxg3! > and a counter-capture sequence begins: if <25.hxg3 Nxc5 >, then if <26.Rxc5 Rxd1+ >. In any case, black is up an exchange and three pawns.

B) <24.Qf4> the square on which white defends Rf3 doesn't matter per se, but Qf4 at least forced Nxf3+ <24....Nxf3+ 25.Qxf3 Rhd8> the black rooks currently dominate the board over the d-file. I only see <26.Ndc3> being reasonable, preventing Rxd1+, Qxc1 and the sting out of Rd2.

Now black given the final blow and puts the question on the white pieces with <26....Qd2!>. If white baits into defending the b-pawn <27.b4 Rd3!> putting the pressure on c3. If white tries to counterattack <28.Qxf7 Qe3+ 29.Kf1 Rxc3! > and black can't recapture because of 30.Rxc3 Rd1# or 30.Nxc3 Qxc1+ .

Time to see if I missed something.

Apr-12-15  TheaN: Okay this is a weird situation. I did not play the game line and missed the obviously strong 23....Qh4, yet after 24.Qc5! it seems white can hold slightly better in a similar variation, despite the defense being extremely difficult. Doubt whether Schlechter and/or Mieses saw this.

My idea of 26....Qd2?! is odd, though still winning, because 27....Qxb2?? is no threat due to 28.Rb1! with a skewer on b7. The tactical shot after 27.b4 Rd3 28.Qxf7 holds, but white has no reason to play this.

Not sure. I'd say by playing 22....Bxe5 23.dxe5 Nxe5 24.Qf4 Nxf3+ 25.Qxf3 Rhd8 I was well underway to win. Gonna count this one. Yay 7/7 (benefit of the doubt, at least).

Feb-28-17  Saniyat24: One of the best pun...!
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
22...? (April 25, 2004)
from Sunday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Jaredfchess
shakman's favorite games - 3
by shakman
A Scandinavian
from Game of the Days by hidude
jepflast's combination studies
by Jaredfchess
jepflast's combination studies
by jepflast
game of the day collection
by nadvil
22...? (Sunday, April 25)
from Puzzle of the Day 2004 by Phony Benoni
22. h3 ! halts Black's attack and equalizes
from Defensive Combinations by xajik
"Of Mieses and Men"
from Scandinavian Favourites by SJP
Wie man Schlechter spielen kann
from greatdane's favorite games by greatdane
Cntr Cntr 3...Qa5 Mieses M.L. (B01)0-1 Odd play sets royal fork
from Knights Add Spice B, C Makes Fredthebear Sneeze by fredthebear
Cntr Cntr 3...Qa5 Mieses M.L. (B01)0-1 Odd play sets royal fork
from yFTB Decoys to, Deflections from, Remove Guard by fredthebear
from Sunday Puzzles by
ultra chess
by test 10
0-0 for white, and 0-0-0 for black. Interesting game already.
from CivilChess' favorite games by CivilChess
November 7: Of Mieses and Men
from Game of the Day 2005 by Phony Benoni

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2018, Chessgames Services LLC