< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|May-29-03|| ||patzer2: JustAFish, 13...Nc2+? runs into the problem of 14 Qxc2,Bxe5; 15 0-0 (instead of 15 Bxe5?). In this 13...Nc2+ continuation, it is now white who is winning after 15 0-0!|
Karpov's 13...Nd3+ is the strongest move here, based on what I suspect is a variation analyzed and prepared years in advance of this game.
|May-29-03|| ||parinda: i think macieja saw 13...Nd3. even though he's down a piece he has some compensation. .blacks weak pawns x-ray pressure on the h1/a8-g1/a7 diagonals. . and after 17 0-0 black can't take the pawn on a2 because of 18 Qxa7! so black must move his king on the semi-open b-file and so he gains more time forcing the queen to wiggle out of the corner. . .the question remains. . how to proceed. . he ended up taking the g-pawn then threatened a few more pawns but it seems like his intiative fizzed-out after that.. maybe a pawn-storm on the queen-side was a better option! |
|May-30-03|| ||Calli: <Aulero> and <Honza> . Thank you for the explanation! I was only thinking of material in the two lines - a pawn up in both cases, but you correctly point out that Black's position is much better if Nd3+ is played immediately. |
|Dec-21-05|| ||hayton3: Nice combination in a variation of the Scotch that poses problems for White in finding any advantage.|
|Sep-30-08|| ||Woody Wood Pusher: 13..Nd3+! what a great move, but we need to remember that it was 11..Nb4! that was the important theoretical novelty which set it up. The position after 11.Ba3 was considered favourable for white until this novelty, and the black queen had until this game always moved.|
Karpov had analysed up to 17..Kb8 at home! The rest being 'a matter of technique'.
20..Rhe8! Karpov activates his extra material at the expense of the pawn.
28..h4! and again the rook's power tells on white.
|Mar-28-15|| ||al wazir: I don't see what's wrong with 15. Qe2. Losing a ♙ is better than losing an exchange.|
My move, 13...Bxe5, also "only wins a ♙": 14. Bxe5 (14. O-O Rhe8) Qxe5 15. Qxe5 Nd3+.
|Mar-28-15|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: White's queen is a bit overloaded, guarding both e5 and the squares for knight checks. The best move order I've found is|
13 ... Nd3+
14 Qxd3 Bxe5
15 Qe2 Bxb2
16 Qxe7 R(d)e8
17 Qxe8+ Rxe8+
18 (K moves) Bxa1
After all that, Black has snatched a pawn.
|Mar-28-15|| ||stst: One obvious line gaining some tempi:
15.Kf1 dxc4 etc Black is on way for huge benefits....
if 15.Qf5+ Kb8 etc not much help to White
|Mar-28-15|| ||diagonalley: seems the difficulty is in finding 13.... N-Q6+ in the first place (muggins didn't even consider it!) ... but once spotted the dividends become manifest. great puzzle|
|Mar-28-15|| ||morfishine: I looked at both deflections <13...Nd3+> & <13...Nc2+>
and thought White simply has <15.Qe2> figuring 15.Bxe5?
was losing after 15...Qxe5+ followed by 16...Qxa1
I guess there is something fatally flawed with 15.Qe2
PM: After reading the posts, its good to see that 15.Qe2
was at least playable
|Mar-28-15|| ||Richard Taylor: I thought the move was Nxd3+ and thought that black would put the K in a position such that the Q on a7 would fall after a check by the B on a6 on c4 so I looked up the game.|
13. Bg2... Nd3+ 14. Qxd3 Bxe5 15. Bxe5 Qxe5+ 16. Qe3 Qxa1 17. Qxa7 Rhe8+ 18. Kd2 Qxa2+ 19.Kd3 Bxc4+ and that wins but I thought Black had to check with the Q. I saw he had to avoid a check on h3 and mate on a8.
This line taking on a7 I thought was the critical one Karpov had to check out so to speak talking of puns...
|Mar-28-15|| ||Richard Taylor: Looking at the game, although I play the Scotch, I've only once been in the position as white and I knew from a Kasparov game analysis that g5 was the best move but White should be o.k. I think it was Anand vs. Kasparov or the other way around in their World Championship match.|
|Mar-28-15|| ||Richard Taylor: My "analysis" above was all faulty as I overlooked the simple Bb7 stopping mate! Stupid. Chess is too hard.|
|Mar-28-15|| ||Richard Taylor: It looks as though Macieja realised too late he had played theory wrongly (that happens) as after 10. ... g5 both theory and the computer like 11. Bb2|
...then the line goes 11...bg7 12. Nd2 Nb4 13. 0-0-0 Nxa2+ 14. Kb1 Nb4 and now I think the main "book" is 15. f4 but my machine likes 15. Qe3.
Karpov possibly was playing a line he recalled as naturally, studying such an opening, esp. this line popularized mostly by Kasparov, he would have asked "What happens if 11. Ba3 etc?" Or someone else would have but he would have to know. Or he saw it OTB he was very capable of finding it.
|Mar-28-15|| ||lost in space: I would have played either 13...Rhe8 or 13...Bxe5|
|Mar-28-15|| ||Penguincw: I had a knight move, but got the wrong knight move. I thought 13...Nc2+ would work, but unfortunately, 13...Nd3+ actually deflects the queen away from b2.|
|Mar-28-15|| ||devere: Very pretty, but not very difficult. After seeing that 13...Bxe5 14.O-O looked unattractive, I saw that 13...Nd3+! would win a pawn with advantage. It's an unusual combination, but due to lack of alternative moves not that difficult to see in the position.|
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|Mar-28-15|| ||agb2002: The material is identical.
The first idea that comes to mind is 13... Nc2+ 14.Qxc2 Bxe5 but the simple 15.0-0 wins for White.
Another option is 13... Bxe5 but after 14.0-0 (14.B(Q)xe5 Qxe5 15.Q(B)xe5 Nd3+ and White loses a pawn without compensation) 14... Rhe8 15.Qd2 Bxb2 16.Qxb2 White's play (to attack the black king) looks easier, which would probably be a reasonable compensation for the pawn.
The above lines suggests 13... Nd3+ 14.Qxd3 (else 14... Nxb2 15.Qxb2 Qxe5 wins decisive material) 14... Bxe5:
A) 15.Bxe5 Qxe5+ 16.Kd2 Qxa1 17.Nc3 Qb2+ - + [R+P vs N], and White cannot trap the queen.
B) 15.0-0 Bxb2 16.Nc3 Bxa1 - + [R+P vs N].
C) 15.Qe2 Qb4+
C.1) 16.Qd2 Qxd2+ 17.Nxd2 Bxb2 wins a pawn.
C.2) 16.Kd1 d5 unclear.
C.3) 16.Kf1 Bxc4 17.bxc4 (or 17.Qxc4 Qxc4+ 18.bxc4 Bxb2) 17... Qxb2 wins the exchange and two pawns.
D) 15.Qe2 Bxb2 16.Qxe7 Rhe8 17.Qxe8 Rxe8+ 18.Kd2 Bxa1 with an extra pawn, the bishop pair and a much better ending. For example, 19.Nc3 Bxc3+ 20.Kxc3 Re2.
Yet another option is the simple 13... Rhe8 which seems to win a pawn.
I don't know. I'd probably play 13... Rhe8.
|Mar-28-15|| ||Marmot PFL: I started with 13...Bxe5 which is simpler, but after looking at Karpov's move I like it better.|
|Mar-28-15|| ||devere: <Yet another option is the simple 13... Rhe8 which seems to win a pawn.>|
13...Rhe8 is a nice natural move that wins a pawn. But after 14.O-O Bxe5 15.Nc3 Black will struggle to get any significant advantage. The flashy 13...Nd3+! is actually the better move.
|Mar-28-15|| ||Dr. J: All the above analysts (and I, too)* seem to come to the same conclusion: 13...Nd3+ is "probably" better than 13...Bxe5 or 13...(either)Re8 since Black apparently retains better co-ordination. But can anyone provide definitive variations and/or engine analysis?|
* and Karpov, too. (Very important!)
|Mar-28-15|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Material is even, but white is uncastled, behind in development by a couple of tempos, and has a vulnerable e5 pawn. Black's knight has potential forks at d3 and c2 and there are potential combinations aimed at Bb2. There are two promising options that appear to win a pawn with initiative. |
One is 13... Bxe5 14.O-O (14.Qxe5?? Nd3+ or 14.Bxe5 Rhe8 looks good for black.) Rhe8 15.Bxe5 (Re1? Bxb2 16.Qxe7 Rxe7 17.Rxe7 Rxa1 wins a piece) Qxe5 16.Qxe5 Rxe5 with an extra pawn and e-file-control.
More unusual is 13... Nd3+!? 14.Qxd3 Bxe5 15.Qe2 Bxb2! 16.Qxe7 Rhe8 17.Qxe8 Rxe8+ 18.Kd2 Bxa1 where black has the extra pawn *and* the two bishops.
With limited time to analyze other options, I'll go with unusual and pick the latter.
Time for review....
|Mar-28-15|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: I didn't expect white to simply give up the exchange.|
|Mar-28-15|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: "13...Bxe5 ; 13...Nd3!" - Karpov, in Informator 87/301.|
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