< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|May-22-08|| ||moodini: Well I would have played 17. Qe7+ and hoped to be able to checkmate the king after 17.. Kc6 18. Bb5+ but I did not see a mate.|
I disagree with those that are complaining about this puzzle. I often get Thursday puzzles but not today. In order to count a puzzle as solved it is necessary to see the win, not just the first few moves. After all in a game if you play a few moves of an 'obvious' looking sacrifice without seeing a win you are going to lose quite often. I suggest that znprdx only bothers looking at Saturday and Sunday puzzles from now on and leaves us mere mortals to toil during the week!
|May-22-08|| ||handle: This one was beyond me. I wanted to play Bxf7. Still can't see what's wrong with that, actually.|
|May-22-08|| ||YouRang: I got the main idea. Start w/ clearance sac 16.Rxd7+ to remove a defender and make way for Q to strike at e7 with check.|
Black has 2 ways to take the rook, but one can be dismissed immediately: 16...Nxd7 due to 17.Qe6+ Kc8 18.Qe8+! Rxe8 19.Rxe8#.
That leaves 16...Kxd2 17.Qe7+, and again, black has a choice -- and this time it's a little harder to see the continuation.
If 17...Kc8, black doesn't seem to have a good answer to 18.Ne5 (threat:Qc7#). There's 18...Na6 (guarding c7), but then 19.Bxa6 puts an end to that.
Apparently, the king's best bet is to run naked into the open and become fodder for white's target practice with 17...Kc6 -- a Bad Thing.
I didn't work it all out (too lazy), but after 18.Bd5+ Kb6 19.Na4+ followed by 20.Qxc7, things look bleak for black.
|May-22-08|| ||Anatoly21: The rook sac wasn't hard for me to see, but I couldn't calculate it to the end. So I just called it good figuring OTB I'd have figured it out anyways. Despite the quality of the game, I really enjoyed this combination.|
|May-22-08|| ||YouRang: <handle: This one was beyond me. I wanted to play Bxf7. Still can't see what's wrong with that, actually.>|
I looked at that for moment too (thinking there might be a queen trap or something in the works).
But after the simple 16...Qg5, black's queen is out of danger, and worse (for white), it now guards e7.
Now, if white tries the clearance sac 17.Rxd7 then 17...Kxd7 18.Qe6+ Kd8, and black *looks* in trouble, but I don't see a clear way to proceed. If that's the case, then black (who is already up a piece) may have time to regroup & develop -- which should be curtains for white!
|May-22-08|| ||playground player: <MostlyAverageJoe> is right--that Kanarki game from 2005 is infinitely worse. Was the Black player (I won't even try to spell her name) trying to lose on purpose? What was she thinking of? She has a .650 winning percentage in the CG database, too. |
Meanwhile, it's just too bad that certain parties on this site can't actually sit down and play against some of those 19th century masters they think so little of. Betcha Prince Dadian would make mincemeat out of most of 'em.
|May-22-08|| ||kevin86: A toughie! The intervening moves are hard to find--the beginning and ending are easy...|
|May-22-08|| ||xKinGKooLx: No way was this a Thursday puzzle. It was much too complicated. Saturday was a better day for this puzzle.|
I thought about the position for a long time, and I narrowed the solution down to two moves - 16. Rxd7+ and 16. Bxf7. I unfortunately picked 16. Bxf7, with the idea of the line 16. ...Qf5 17. Be8 with the idea of 18. Bxe7, but after checking the answer I saw that 17. ...c6 defends against this.
My problem is that I just can't see far enough ahead without playing out the position on a board. Argh. Oh well. I just need to practice. Better luck tomorrow.
|May-22-08|| ||zb2cr: Well, I guess I can claim 1/2 credit here. I saw the first move (16. Rxd7), and that Black must take with the King. I did not try the game variation, as I believed that 17. Bb5+ was incorrect after 17. ... Nc6. (See engine-checked analysis provided by <MostlyAverageJoe>, above.)|
However, after 17. Qe7+, Kc8 I believed 18. Bxf7, chasing the Black Queen, was the way to go. Here again leaning on <MostlyAverageJoe>'s engine-checked analysis, the strongest move is 18. Nd5 leading to mate.
My thought with 18. Bxf7 was that if 18. ... Qf5; 19. Be6+ wins the Black Queen. If 18. ... Qg7; 19. Be6+, Nd7 (forced); 20. Bxd7+, Kb8; 21. Qe8+, Rxe8; 22. Rxe8#.
|May-22-08|| ||KingG: Like a lot of people here, I went for 17.Qe7+, and could see the easy mates, but couldn't quite work out a forced mate after 17...Kc6 18.Bb5+ or 18.Bd5+. However, with the Queen, Bishop, Knight, Rook, and 3 pawns around Black's kind, I was sure there was bound to be a winning attack, and in fact the computer shows there are many ways to win. I think that over the board in these kinds of positions you just need to trust your intuition. Trying to calculate everything beforehand seems like a waste of time. However as a puzzle it would be nice to be able to work everything out in your head.|
|May-22-08|| ||YouRang: <KingG><I think that over the board in these kinds of positions you just need to trust your intuition. Trying to calculate everything beforehand seems like a waste of time.>|
I tend to agree. If you can see far enough ahead to know that the king is in the open with your queen & a number of pieces all bearing down on it, you've got to go for it rather than try to calculate all variations.
Of course, one must be more careful when your opponent has counter-threats. If every move has to be check in order to keep the counter-threats at bay, then you DO have to calculate it out.
In this case, black's biggest threat is probably ...f3 (threat: ...Qxg2#), but that requires an extra tempo that should be enough for white to easily wrap up the king hunt and mate.
|May-22-08|| ||Magic Castle: <Mostly Average Joe> K Kanakari is a very inspiring player. She really inspired me to play competitive chess. Maybe I have a chance to beat this kind of player. Does she have a rating?|
|May-22-08|| ||johnlspouge: Thursday (Medium): White to play and win.
Material: Down 2Ps. White has a battery Re1, Qe2, and Re7 on the open e-file. The Bc4 is on an open diagonal, and with Nc3, can reach the Black Kd8 rapidly. Both the Black Bd7 and Re8 must protect e8 from the fatal Re8, but neither piece seems susceptible to deflection. The move Rxd7+ removes Bd7, permitting invasion by Qe2, however.
Candidates (16.): Re8+, Rxd7+, Bxf7
Black must recapture or be left with 2Ps for a B, in an inferior position where his Kc8 is being hunted. Black has 2 captures.
(1) 16…Nxd7 17.Qe7+ Kc8 18.Qe8+ Rxe8 19.Rxe8#
I then went for 17.Qe7+. I will look at the kibitzing and use the computer. I believe White can recover the material from the sacrifice of Re7, and the Black K is vulnerable in the open via c3 and c4, but it was not clear to me whether White was then winning.
|May-22-08|| ||patzer2: For today's Thursday puzzle solution, White initiates a mating attack with 16. Rxd7+!! As <MostlyAverageJoe> observes on page 1 of the kibitzing here, White would have won quicker and easier with the follow-up 17. Qe7+! Kc8 18. Nd5! when Black cannot long avoid or delay mate.|
|May-22-08|| ||johnlspouge: While it is easy to find checks, the forced mate stemming from 16...Kxd7 17.Qe7+ Kc6 derives from the move Qe2 (without check), which in some lines threatens Qc4#, a mate in 1. For my future reference (and the reference of anyone else), a threat of mate in 1 (without check) is every bit as forcing as a check!|
|May-22-08|| ||234: Wednesday puzzle <20. ?> May-21-08 H Runde vs M Jensen, 2003|
|May-22-08|| ||TrueBlue: Bb5+ unnecessary show off. Qe7 does the job just fine.|
|May-22-08|| ||Terry McCracken: < playground player: <MostlyAverageJoe> is right--that Kanarki game from 2005 is infinitely worse. Was the Black player (I won't even try to spell her name) trying to lose on purpose? What was she thinking of? She has a .650 winning percentage in the CG database, too.
Meanwhile, it's just too bad that certain parties on this site can't actually sit down and play against some of those 19th century masters they think so little of. Betcha Prince Dadian would make mincemeat out of most of 'em.>|
Maybe? But not all and certainly not me.
I've played a few masters and they all would say the same thing, at least privately.
I believe this game was staged and in fact they made the Prince look pretty foolish imo.
|May-22-08|| ||Terry McCracken: <Marmot PFL: <Simply the worst game I've seen here!>
By the standards of its time it was typical. It just shows how far ahead of his time Morphy was.>|
Really? I've looked at the games of the old masters, even Ruy Lopez and Greco played far better chess and that goes back several centuries.
|May-22-08|| ||Terry McCracken: TrueBlue Your post insulting me was reported. I'll report any abusive post so if you're intelligent you won't do it again!|
|May-22-08|| ||pagliacci19: the annotation is the best--if only all chess texts could be so illuminating...|
|May-22-08|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <playground player: <MostlyAverageJoe> is right--that Kanarki game from 2005 is infinitely worse. Was the Black player (I won't even try to spell her name) trying to lose on purpose? What was she thinking of? She has a .650 winning percentage in the CG database, too.>|
You probably meant "White player". The black player (Marta Przezdziecka, current FIDE rating: 2304) has won that game.
|May-22-08|| ||tor2ga: I am curious about the possibility, suggested in several comments, that this game was a composition.|
17.Bb5+ is a disastrous blunder. White is obviously lost after 17...Nc6 -- the attack sputters out, down a full rook and several pawns, no real control of the d-file, and Black is ready to batter down the g-file.
Compositions that end in a brilliant sacrificial forced checkmate -- do they usually include a obvious game-losing blunder inside that "brilliant" line? (Maybe the point of today's puzzle, after the rook-sac, is to NOT play Bb5+ ?)
|Oct-24-16|| ||scutigera: As an aside, Kolisch’s Wikipedia biography states that, while he became extremely wealthy later, he was “the private secretary to Prince [Sergei Nikolaevich] Urusov” at or before the time this game was played, while the year after, Kolisch “moved to Vienna…and became involved in banking and became a millionaire and chess patron” in part owing to a meeting with Albert von Rothschild, which he could not likely have managed without a good recommendation.|
I’d throw a (possibly offhand) chess game for that.
|Oct-24-17|| ||Bubo bubo: <tor2ga: I am curious about the possibility, suggested in several comments, that this game was a composition.>|
The spuriousness of this "game" is obvious: One of the best players of his time loses to a subprime player notorious for faking games?
The only question is whether Dadian achieved this "win" by bribery or by blackmail!
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