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|Mar-18-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: <sethoflagos> 23...Nxe4 looks good.
[24. Nc2 Bb3 25. fxe4 Bg5+ 26. Rd2 (26. Kb1 Bxc2#) 26...Bxc2 27. b3 Ra1+ wins; 24. b3 Nxc3 ; 24. Be3 Bc4! (24...Nxc3 is also very good) and Black wins due to the double threat of 25...Rxa1# and 25...Bxf1]
24...Bg5+ 25. Rd2 Bc4! and once again Black wins with the double threat of 25...Ra1# and 25...Bxf1
|Mar-18-12|| ||arnaud1959: <supergeckoh: How is this "insane"? 11.Nd5is thematic. I saw it very quickly.> The fact that the first move is thematic doesn't mean that the puzzle is easy. 14.Qf3 was not so easy to find on the 11 th move. and there are two other games in the database with a totally different continuation. I would add that only by looking at those games I realised that 10.a4 was not a useless move before 11.Nd5. So many times this move has been just a temporary piece sacrifice which brings nothing.|
|Mar-18-12|| ||M.Hassan: "Insane" White to play 11.?
Equal in materials.
White tries to get d pawn with a discovered check but Black sees that and gets the e pawn.
16.Nd5!pinning the Bishop
17.Rxe4+ White falls a piece ahead
|Mar-18-12|| ||offramp: If the object is just to find the first move then this is pretty weak.... Newspapers and books have the space to say things like, "you have to find the best defence and white's amazing ninth move" - or something like that. But chessgames can only have the perennial "11.?"!|
|Mar-18-12|| ||Patriot: Material is even.
Black's king is still in the center and threatens 11...O-O-O. There's a very big threat of 11...bxc3.
There are various forcing moves to consider, like 11.Nxc6, 11.Nxe6, 11.Nb5, or 11.Nd5. The only one that looks good to me is 11.Nd5 although I'm not clear how it will end.
11.Nd5 exd5 12.Nxc6 Bxc6 13.exd5+ at least wins material back while opening the king's position.
11.Nd5 exd5 12.Nxc6 dxe4 13.Bxe4 looks strong.
11.Nd5 Qa5 12.Nxc6 Bxc6 13.Bd2 looks ok. Or 11...Qd8 12.Nxc6 Bxc6.
|Mar-18-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: <sethoflagos> I checked the position with Stockfish and it confirms that I found the best move with 23...Nxe4!|
Here are Black's two best tries according to Stockfish:
(-9.49) 1... Nxe4 2. Qe1
[(-8.52) 2. Bxe5 Bc4 3. Nc2 Bxf1]
2... Bg5+ 3. Be3 Be6 4. Nc2 Na2+ 5. Kb1 Nexc3+ 6. bxc3 Nxc3+ 7. Kc1 Nxd1
|Mar-18-12|| ||scormus: I'm not at all sure about this.
11 Nd5+ exd5 and after some consideration 12 Nxc6. Check the game, and yes OK so far
But after 12 ... Bxc6 what does W do to win. My guess is 13 exd5+ B or N e7 14 dxc6 0-0-0. It's not exactly brilliant for B but I dont see a direct win for W. I feel I must have missed something.
|Mar-18-12|| ||sethoflagos: <LoveThatJoker:> What's your line after 22...Ne4(!) 23.Nc2 Bb3 24.fxe4 Bg5+ 25.Be3? - the early 23...Bg5+ works better for me [24.Be3 Bxe3 25.Nxe3 Bc4]|
I don't have Fritzie with me at the moment but as I recall, he thought the main line may be 22...Nxe4 23.Bxe5 Bg5+ 24.f4 Qc5
|Mar-18-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: <sethoflagos> Seeing as how I solved your puzzle correctly, at this point I'm letting Stockfish do all the work.|
According to Stockfish, 25. Be3 is Black's best move in 22...Ne4 23.Nc2 Bb3 24.fxe4 Bg5+ with a (-3.47) eval after the natural line of 25. Be3 Bxc2 24. Bxg5 Ra1+ 25. Kd2 Rxd1+ 26. Qxd1 Bxd1 27. Rxd1 Qxg4 28. Be3 Qg2+ 29. Be2 Nc6
Position after 29...Nc6
click for larger view
As it regards this winning endgame, it should be noted that Black could have won sooner in my line after 22...Ne4 23.Nc2 Bb3 24.fxe4 exd4! which is the ultimate best play of all.
It's a shame you missed it, but thanks for bringing both the puzzle and 25. Be3 to my attention.
|Mar-18-12|| ||sevenseaman: <scormus> <It's not exactly brilliant for B but I dont see a direct win for W. I feel I must have missed something.>|
Do not worry too much. It was a chancy win for White on the assumption Black was losing his Q to the White N that arrived at d5. I have tried it against Crafty. Black need not have panicked and taken the N; he could defend quite well if he withdrew his Q to b8.
|Mar-18-12|| ||agb2002: The material is equal.
Black threatens 11... bxc3.
The first move that comes to mind is 11.Nd5:
A) 11... exd5 12.Nxc6 removing the defender
A.1) 12... Qxc6 13.exd5+ wins the queen.
A.2) 12... Bxc6 13.exd5+ Ne7 14.dxc6
A.2.a) 14... 0-0-0 15.Qd3 (15.Qg4+ f5 16.Qxb5 d5 looks less convincing)
A.2.a.i) 15... Nxc6 16.Qxa6+ Qb7 (16... Kd7 17.Bh3+ f5 18.Bxf5#; 16... Kb8 17.Bxc6 + - [B+P]) 17.Qxc6 + - [B+P].
A.2.a.ii) 15... Qa7 16.Be3 Qa8 17.c7 + -.
A.2.a.iii) 15... Qa5 16.Qd4 Qc7 (16... Kb8 17.Be3 Qc7 18.Qxb4+ Kc8 19.Qc4 + - [2P]) 17.Qxb4 Nxc6 18.Bh3+ + -.
A.2.b) 14... Kd8 15.Bf4 Nxc6 16.Qd5 Rc8 17.Rad1 looks overwhelming.
A.3) 12... dxe4 13.Bxe4 Ne7 14.Qf3 and White stands much better but not already winning.
A.4) 12... Ne7 13.exd5 + /- [P].
B) 11... Qa5 12.Nxc6 Bxc6 13.Qd4
B.1) 13... exd5 14.exd5+ Ne7 15.dxc6 Qc7 16.Bf4
B.1.a) 16... 0-0-0 17.Qxb4 Nxc6 18.Bh3+ as in A.2.a.iii.
B.1.b) 16... Rd8 17.Qxb4 + - [2P].
B.2) 13... Bxd5 14.exd5 e5 15.Bd2 Rb8 16.c3 b3 17.c4 followed by a5-Qc3-Ra3 winning Black's b-pawn.
|Mar-18-12|| ||chrisowen: Taimanov or Kan in er good curious queen early it tempt in b5 leading to Kalashnikov or Sveshnikov database has 16 exact to be precise 13 wins 1 draw 2 loose redresses the issue after 9.re1 d6 all wins key in damn might look for nxd4 or 9...bb4 in gab 10.a4 it doctor in medicine accostables end tres bon eg jovial in manage nd5 slightly stronger in option pa5 lately make b4 weak in giving appraisal on share I egg on g3 as salient right ease in a6 tempo gained? <Once> Good show chap right on the money escry it favour in d5 I deon't hope in really it that b5 park a wagon in front it history in het up knight i f6 lower there so rig in al-together as put in near on bubbles bath glory in hanker mike gumball have xd5 nxc6 dxe4 bxe4 ne7 qf3 f5 bd5 ar good heckles king d7 and then queenf3 as hi on big friendly hug for success b5 a kind it just doesnt work d6 for ha ld5 on fo rest 13 off... kerb is hop in d5.|
|Mar-18-12|| ||scormus: <sevenseaman> Thanks, I agree B must have seen bigger threats than there really were. 11 ... Q retreats would have been better.|
Being confronted by moves like 11 Nd5 seems to have an unsettling effect
|Mar-18-12|| ||RookFile: Another game showing a bad black defense with ....Bb7. He would have been better served with boring developing involving ....Be7 and 0-0.|
|Mar-18-12|| ||Fanques Fair: Sethoflagos and LoveThatJoker , what do you think about 22- ... , Bb1 !!! ? If 23- Kxb1 , Rxa1+ ! , 24- Kxa1 , Qa8+ , 25- Kb1 , Qa2+ , 26- Kc1, Qa1+, 27- Kd2, Qxb2+ , 28- Ke3 , exd4+ , 29- Rxd4, Nc2+ , and Black seems absolutely won ?! If White refuses the bishop, with 23-Nb3 , then Black has 23- ..., Bc2, with various terrifc threats, such as Bxb3, Bxd1, Ra1 ...|
|Mar-18-12|| ||Once: In case you were wondering, the chocolate marble cake was delicious...|
... and we can just about recognise the outline of the kitchen underneath all that mess.
This next bit is from the Mem herself: <It was a wonderful meal, and I'm very proud of my menfolk!>
|Mar-18-12|| ||dufferps: For me, 11.Nd5 was pretty obvious as a "best move." Some of the later moves were more "puzzling/challenging" Black's response, 11....exd5 was not unexpected.
I was in a hurry, and expected White to move 12.exd5+, but 12.Nxc6 made sense when I saw it.|
I thought black might have moved 12....Ne7, but on reflecting I think his move 12....dxe4 was a better choice. And white chose the proper response, 13. Bxe4. Now Black plays 13....Ne7, protecting his King from discovered check and adding to the threat on the white Knight at c6. Black has 3 pieces aimed at c6, but the Knight is (for now) pinned.,
White brings his Queen to support defense of the knight at c6, and to the traditional position to threaten the weak King'sBishop's pawn. Black responds by advancing that pawn to f5, and White makes the right move, 15.Bd5.
keeping the protection on the c6 Knight and pinning black's knight at e7.
I regret that Sandrin resigned at that point, because I think he still had some strong moves, and I would have liked to see how it played out. I am thinking the next moves would be 15...Kd7, 16.Nxe7............. But I would like to see how the masters would play it out,.
|Mar-18-12|| ||mikmik777: White to play: 11.?
A Karklins vs A Sandrin
White has a slight advantage in terms of space. His king is relatively safe. Also, his knights are well placed on the center. However, his c3 knight is being menaced by Black's b-pawn.
Black, on the other hand, has undeveloped kingside. His queenside is weakened due to the advanced queenside pawns and partially open c-file.
I think I need to find a forcing variation. I can't find any, save one:
11.Nd5 (attacking Black's queen)
12.Nxc6 (12.exd5+ [discovery check] is a blunder because of the intermezzo 12. ...Nce7 blocking the e-file and saving the knight)
13.exd5+ (White is a pawn up)
I can't find anything else. Time to check what really happened in the game.
I got the first two moves correctly. 12. ...dxe4 saves a pawn but loses the game..
|Mar-18-12|| ||newzild: I didn't try to solve this right through to the end, as I don't have time today, but as a Najdorf player the first three moves jumped out at me immediately. I think it would have taken me a while to find 14. Qf3, however.|
|Mar-18-12|| ||stst: No direct kill, so go for the Q!
11.Nd5 Qd8 (where else to avoid loss?)
IF 11.... exd5, 12.exd5 dis+ by R
13.N(d)c7+ forks Qxc7
15.Nxc7, and Black is Q-less, couldn't last long...
|Mar-18-12|| ||ounos: Does anyone have a concrete variation that showcases why 10. a4 is important? Terribly curious to see|
|Mar-18-12|| ||Patriot: <<ounos>: Does anyone have a concrete variation that showcases why 10. a4 is important? Terribly curious to see> This is a very common maneuver to loosen up their pawns. I'd say if 10...bxa4 11.Rxa4 with the idea of 12.Rc4.|
|Mar-18-12|| ||RookFile: 10. a4 b4 11. Nd5 Qd8 12. Nxc6 and then you chop on b4, winning the b pawn. If you just play 10. Nd5 and he goes 10...Qd8, what does white have?|
|Mar-19-12|| ||FSR: <ounos> The games where Black declines the knight "sacrifice" show that the interpolation of 10.a4 b4 before 11.Nd5 is very useful in (a) making Black's b-pawn weak and (b) creating a potential outpost for White's knight on b6 (secured by the further pawn push a5). These points are illustrated by Reti vs Tartakower, 1919, which continued 11.Nd5 <Qa5> 12.Nxc6 Bxc6 13.Qd4 Nf6 14.Bd2 e5 15.Bxb4 (winning the weak b-pawn) and Nunn vs R Johannes, 1970, which continued 11.Nd5 <Qb8> 12.Nb6 Ra7 13.Nxc6 Bxc6 14.a5 (securing the outpost on b6) Be7 15.Bd2 Nf6 16.Bxb4 (winning the weak b-pawn).|
Another possibility for Black was seen in Kupreichik vs B Lindberg, 1992: 10.a4 <Nxd4> 11.Qxd4 bxa4 12.Rxa4. That leaves Black's a-pawn weak, and White won it after 12...Ne7 13.Be3 Nc6 14.Qb6 Qxb6 15.Bxb6 Be7 16.Rea1 Kd7 17.Bf1 Rhb8 18.Bxa6.
|Apr-02-12|| ||ounos: Thanks guys, and mostly <FSR> for very, very informative reply, with examples for each idea, sweet. Tip of the hat to your general direction :)|
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