< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Apr-05-07|| ||Honza Cervenka: I guess that the main point of this puzzle is to avoid tempting 20.Ngxe6?? In normal game I would be playing probably 20.Raf1 with idea 20...Nxe5 21.Ngxe6! fxe6 22.Rxf8+ Rxf8 23.Rxf8+ Kxf8 24.Nxe6+ and 25.Nxc7 or 20...Qxe5 21.Qh4 where black cannot defend both h7 and f7. As it was a puzzle, I have started to calculate 20.Nxh7 and found out that it works well. 20.Qh3 did not cross my mind.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||latebishop: I tried to find a different way with: 20.N(d4)xe6 fxe6 [if 20...Qxe5 simply 21.Nxf8] 21.Qh3 h6 [ 21...Rxf3 22.Qxh7+ Kf8 23.Nxe6+ and 24.Nxc7 etc] 22.Qxe6+ Kh8 23.Rh3 threatening 24.Rxh6+ gxh6 25.Qxh6+ Kg8 26.Qh7++.|
Does anyone see any merits in this idea?
|Apr-05-07|| ||outplayer: This opening is hard to understand. 20.Qh3! is great.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||tbentley: <MostlyAverageJoe>It's obviously 1. Na3. White has a 100% winning percentage in this database. Of course Fischer thought it was 1. e4. Yes, it's 1. e4! f5 2. exf5! g5 3. Qh5#!|
|Apr-05-07|| ||Marmot PFL: I like the line with 20Nxh7 Kxh7 21.Qh4+ Kg8 22.Rh3 etc. cause it wins but not immediately. Let black suffer for a while.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||Jack Kerouac: Yes. 1 Na3....Also known as the Bush Opening.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||nateinstein: Put me in with the Nxh7 crowd.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||kevin86: I went the Nxe6 route. Black,of course,avoids the real damage by Qxe5. The actual solution is very unclear and ambiguous-more like a weekend puzzle.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||pggarner: What's wrong with 20.Ngxe6 fxe6 21.Nxe6, winning the black queen because of the threat of mate on g7?|
|Apr-05-07|| ||pggarner: Nevermind ... 21....Qxe5 saves the queen.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||jackpawn: In a five minutes game I would have played Nxh7 without giving it a second thought. I'm still not sure it isn't the most practical solution.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||MiCrooks: I too was one that quickly decided that Nxh7 was winning and ended my search. After being puzzled by the game move, I decided to drop it in Fritz to see what it would come up with. |
It's evaluationg may change a bit if I let it go longer, but based on what I am seeing right now there were two moves better than the one in the game.
Fritz has Raf1, a natural sort of move as the best! (2.50) and gives Qxe5 21. Qh4 h6 22. Nxf7 Rxf7 23. Rxf7 Rf8 24. Qf2 Kh7 25. Rxf8 as the line.
My move (and others I saw) is almost as good (2.28) with 20. Nxh7 Qxe5 21. Qh4 g6 22. Nxf8 Rxf8 23.Raf1 etc.
The game move was at 1.56 for ever but finally popped up to (2.09) after getting 13 ply into it. Still it is listed as the third best move. Kind of makes it hard to use a problem doesn't it!?
Maybe the people are right who conjecture that the idea is to avoid Nxe6, but that supposes that you start with the third best move in the first place! I think this problem needed to start at move 21. instead where finding Nxf7! instead of Nxe6? would have been a worth Thursday puzzle! Did someone at Chessgames just mess up on the move the puzzle was supposed to start on?!
|Apr-05-07|| ||playground player: Nxh7 works for me, too.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||MiCrooks: Oh, and if you are looking for avoiding moves, finding 21. Nf5!! after 20. Nxh7 Kxh7?? which forces mate by allowing the e-pawn to eventually go to e6 cutting of the Black King's escape is a good one!|
The immediate Qh4+ would still win, but would give you a slightly worse position than either Raf1 or Qh3 as in the game.
|Apr-05-07|| ||newton296: I question if the correct starting move here for a thursday puzzle would be around move 30 not 20? nice win for white here. especially for avoiding nxe6 as qxe5 for black saves the q and defends mate. If thursday puzzle is mate in 15, I cant wait for sundays puzzle! lol!|
|Apr-05-07|| ||fm avari viraf: Beliavsky had the advantage throughout the game & had many choices but the one he chose was enough to knock down his opponent convincingly.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||TommyC: I decided on 20.Nxh7 too, having quickly rejected any Nxe6 stuff. Since 20. Qh3 obliges 20...h6, which then allows 21.Nxf7, which also opens black up, I guess there's not much difference between the two.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||willyfly: <MostlyAverageJoe> my solution for your prediction for Sunday's puzzle - |
1/2 - 1/2 agreed
|Apr-05-07|| ||Sneaky: < newton296: I question if the correct starting move here for a thursday puzzle would be around move 30 not 20? > That position doesn't even qualify for a puzzle, because White is already won at that stage. He's up two healthy pawns and Black's king is terribly exposed. 30.b3, 30.a3, 30.c3, 30.Rb1, 30.Rc1, 30.h3, all these moves "win" at move 30. (But 30.Ng5?? Rf1+ does not!)|
|Apr-05-07|| ||thesonicvision: this was a bad puzzle.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||aazqua: What sort of ridiculous puzzle is this? I don't think the played move is best. My vote was n*h7. k*h7 is followed by qh4ch and rh3, black has to push the f pawn and then n*p with a fork and other michief. Q*e5 instead of k*h7 is met with nf6ch and then the black queen is traded for r + n and white has the advantage.|
|Apr-05-07|| ||RandomVisitor: (24-ply)
1: Alexander Beliavsky - Zoltan Ribli, October Revolution 60 1977
click for larger view
Analysis by Rybka 2.3.1 mp 32-bit:
1. (3.18): 20.Raf1 Qxe5 21.Qh4 h6 22.Nxf7 Rxf7 23.Rxf7
2. (2.91): 20.Nxh7 Qxe5 21.Qh4 g6 22.Nc6 Qh5 23.Nf6+ Nxf6 24.Ne7+ Kh7 25.Qxf6 Nd7 26.Qd4 Qe5
3. (2.59): 20.Qh3 h6 21.Nxf7 Rxf7 22.Rxf7 Qxe5 23.Nc6 Qe2 24.Re7 Qxc2 25.Qxe6+ Kh7
4. (2.02): 20.Re1 Qc5 21.Qf4 Rae8 22.Rg3 Nd5 23.Qe4 g6 24.Qh4 h5 25.Ngxe6 Qb4 26.c3 Qxb2
|Apr-05-07|| ||Fezzik: I missed this one. I thought there were several ways to win and chose Nxe6. This probably throws the win away whereas Nh7 cinches it. |
I am not sure, but Qh3 and Rybka's Raf1 both fail on aesthetic grounds. If I saw it properly (which I didn't), I'd vote for Nh7 as the best move in the diagram.
After a week of overly simple puzzles, thanks for challenging us again, Chess games!
|Apr-05-07|| ||BigMiggy: Played Nxh7 without a sceond thought, too. Sacrifice First, Think Later Syndrome? I read somewhere Spielmann was afflicted with it, too.|
|Apr-07-07|| ||ALEXIN: Nxh7 seemed be good for me (calculating before). I saw Qh3 and considered it as less direct than Nxh7.|
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