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| Jan-24-13 | | Jason Frost: Game line is convincing, but I went with the first move I looked at 22.Nxf7 and a)22...Rxf7 23.Bxe6 R7f8 24.Rd1+ and 24...Bd6 25.Ba3 or 24...Ke8 25.Bd7+ 26.Kd8 Be5 b)22...Qxf7 23.Bxe6 and 23...Qh5 24.Bxf6+ or 23...Qd7 24.Rd1+ followed by 24.Be5+ or 24.Bb5+ winning Though it's late and I'm sure I missed something. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Bartimaeus: <Steve.Patzer : After 22. Rd1+ Kc8 23. Nxf7 does Rhg8 survive?> Not really. 22. Rd1+ Kc8 23. Nxf7 Rhg8 24. Bxe6+ and now two possibilities : a) 24.. Kb8 Be5 and black can resign
b) 24.. Nd7 25. Bxd7+ Qxd7 26. Rxd7 Kxd7 and black can limp to a lost endgame Black has a terrible position and it seems to be a matter of time before it turns into a lost game. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | rilkefan: I was expecting 22.Nxf7+, which stockfish says is about +3, with main line ...Rxf7 23.Bxe6 Re8 24.Rd1+ Bd6 (if ...Ke7 then 25.Be5 and 26.Bd5 and black's queen is suddenly out of squares) 25.Re3. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | M.Hassan: "Medium"
White to play 22.?
Equal materials
22.Rd1+ Kc8
23.Nxf7 g5
24.Bxe6+ Kb8
25.Qg3 Qxg3
26.hxg3
White is 2 pawns up and that's what i can see. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Bartimaeus: <M Hassan: 23...g5 24.Bxe6+ Kb8 25.Qg3..> Better seems 25. Qc4 and now white will win either the Queen or the Knight. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Abdel Irada: <<•>Batch 22<•>> In the puzzle position, White appears to have two "different" ways to win, although they really appear to be two different move-orders by which to implement the same core plan. However, I see no point in "solving" the position twice, so I will pick the more forcing approach. <<•> 22. Rd1†, Kc8> Others: (a) 22. ...Bd5 23. Bxd5, exd5 24. Rxd5†  : The game is by no means over, but White has won a pawn and eliminated Black's most dangerous piece at no cost to himself. (b) 22. ...Bd6?! 23. Red2, Bd5 24. Bxd5, g5 25. Nc6†, Ke8 26. Qa4  : White's multiple attacks cannot all be met satisfactorily. (c) 22. ...Ke8? 23. Bb5†, Ke7 24. Rd7† . (d) 22. ... Ke7? 23. Rd7† . <<•> 23. Nxf7! ... > Black has four more-or-less plausible answers.
<(1) 23. ...g5?!
24. Bxe6†, Kb8
25. Qg3 >
After the forced queen exchange, White will be two pawns ahead and maintain a dual threat against the pinned knight on f6 and the rook on h8. <(2) 23. ...Qc6?!
24. Bxe6†, Kb8
25. Qg3† >
Again the queen move puts a stop to the counterplay, allowing White to win decisive material. <<•>(3) 23. ...Qxf7!?
24. Bxe6†, Qxe6
25. Rxe6, Ne4!?
26. Rxe4, Rxf2
27. Bd4 >
This is a tricky and complex line in which I may be overlooking something, but I remain confident that the countersacrifice is unlikely to offer enough compensation. Nonetheless, I believe this is Black's best practical chance, and as such I will consider it the main line and most likely candidate for a viable defense. <(4) 23. ...Rxf7
24. Bxe6†, Kb8>
Or (a) 24. ...Rd7 25. Bxf6 .
<25. Be5 >
White wins the queen, and the game will soon follow.
***
I will now be most interested to see how Yevseev actually defended this, and whether he forced his opponent to nail 39 points to his door to prove a win. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Abdel Irada: I see Yevseev did offer the countersac, but Luther made a vigorous protest, and this time it was not he who found himself excommunicated. (N.B.: In previous post, for "39 points," read "95 theses." My memory does *not* function well without sleep.) |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Shams: <Abdel> <In previous post, for "39 points," read "95 theses."> Been watching Hitchcock again? |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Abdel Irada: <Been watching Hitchcock again?> Apparently not enough to recognize the reference.
But I do have an excuse: It's been over 11 years since I had a television. Now ask me how much I miss it. ;-) |
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| Jan-24-13 | | morfishine: White breaks through in the
center cutting off the escape of the Black King. Two candidates, both checks, 22.Rd1+ & 22.Nxf7+, appear sufficient to win...Frankly, I'm too tired this morning to work out the variations sprouting from the sub-branches stemming from the main branches |
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| Jan-24-13 | | maxfrank: Abdel. 39 steps. Old Hitchcock classic from way back. Good posts. I'm a film person but prefer straight chess here. For this problem I liked the second way. Btw just read Ozment's "A mighty fortress" great short German history. Highly recommended. He recently wrote "the serpent and the lamb" about Cranach and Luther. One more OT bit: Nietsche in ASZ prologue saw an eagle of pride wearing a serpent of wisdom and said "if one day my wisdom should desert me - ah, it loves to fly away - then may my pride too fly with my folly." 4 years later he was catatonic. Something about killing the king (father/god). Well, chess isn't everything. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | stacase: <Steve.Patzer: Well, I got the first move right.>Ditto |
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| Jan-24-13 | | gofer: Black has played a perculiar strategy;
Either
1 ... Ke7 2 ... Raf8 3 ... Kd8
Or
1 ... O-O-O 2 ... Rdf8 3 ... Kd8
Either way white has bullied black into a horrible position. With the king
open to threats along most lines! So all we need to do is tip the balance
and remove a defender that Rf8 hopes he is defending, but isn't. <22 Nxf7+ ...>
White threatens to take Rh8 and then follow up with Rxe6+ or Bxe6+ which ever
way the black king runs, so running isn't an option!
22 ... Kc8/Ke8/Ke7
23 Nxh8
22 ... Qxf7/Rxf7
23 Bxe6
~~~
So I have the move order wrong!
<<Okay robots what is better?>> <22 Nxf7+ ...>
or
<22 Rd1+ ...> |
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Jan-24-13
 | | chrisowen: Simple find every it is ok 23.Nxf7 again pick pocket black left within little choice as e6 will fall enter a phase of tactics if got 23.Qxf7 white in forking queen fervious assualt reigns down eline and d-colom light has too pawns and a queen in er for knight and dsb enough compensation me thinks it silver in birched it gold for look having come bade hither in game too line have in axe 23...Rxf7 chill bind again xray it is double hint balled fleece in hook 24.Bxe6+ king bathroom in picking have also 24...Kb8 when b2 grasp 25.be5 winning queen inch band apart he teaming up ply it blacks in best shot eg ok in 23...rd8 alowing fortress still under victory the gaze of f7, at least exchange down in
d8 giving four versus four plus to pans and <rooke2> (in the bag) |
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| Jan-24-13 | | kevin86: The fur flies quickly in this one.
The winner should have a 95 move game and then deliver a thesis on each one. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Marmot PFL: 22 Rd1+ (an obvious move but 22 Nxf7 could also be playable) 22...Ke7 23 Bb5+ and 22...Ke8 23 Ng4 both are bad
22...Bd5 23 Ba6 threatening 23 c4
22...Kc8 23 Nxf7 Rxf7 24 Bxe6+ Kb8 25 Be5...These lines seem winning for white so I didn't spend much effort on 22 Nxf7, which looks promising also but less clear |
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| Jan-24-13 | | crocodile27: Hello can someone explain why Black resigned here? MY PC Chess program can't find any quick mate from here.... |
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Jan-24-13
 | | al wazir: Well, I got it, sort of. I thought black would play 23...Rxf7. White's moves are pretty obvious, but the move order isn't. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Marmot PFL: <Hello can someone explain why Black resigned here? MY PC Chess program can't find any quick mate from here....> Black has only B and N for Q and 2 pawns. If 28...Rxd4 29 Re4+ and 30 Rxd4 |
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| Jan-24-13 | | mistreaver: Thursday. White to play. Medium. 22.?
I would go for:
22 Nxf7+ and now
a)22...Rxf7
23 Bxe6 Re7
24 Rd1+ Ke8
25 Bxf6 gxf6
26 Qxf6 Rf8
27 Qg6+ and i think white's position is overwhelming
b)22... Qxf7
23 Bxe6 Qe7
24 Rd1+ Kc7
25 Be5+ Kc6
26 Qa4+ and black is busted
Time to check.
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Okay, i don't know how to comment on this. Rd1 and Nf7 is certainly the way to win it, altought Nxf7 also retains decisive advantage.
My first line is correct, my second line is flawish, the last move Qa4 is gross bludner, whereas 26 Bxf6 (with the threat Bd5+) Bxf2+(what else) 27 Qxf2 Qxf6 28 Bd5+ wins for white.
But there is something else that is more important.
In the first line, instead of 23... Re7 which loses outright, black can play the computer move 23...Ke8, when one line is for example
24 Rd1 Kf8 25 Bxf7 Kxf7 (25...Qxf7 26 Rd8+ is decisive) 26 Qc4+ and Fritz gives +3 for white in this position :
click for larger view |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Patriot: Material is even.
22.Nxf7+ and 22.Rd1+ followed by 23.Nxf7 look interesting but I'm doubtful white is getting adequate compensation. 22.Nxf7+ Rxf7 (22...Qxf7 23.Rxe6 is also possible) 23.Bxe6 Re7 and perhaps 24.Bxf6 gxf6 25.Qxf6 looks interesting. 23...R7f8 may be best and I'm not sure what white has. 24.Rd1+ Bd6 25.Be5 g5 26.Qg3 looks winning. 22.Rd1+ Ke8 23.Nxf7 Rxf7 24.Bxe6 Re7 looks suspicious. Another candidate, 22.Bxe6 looks positive for white.
22.Bxe6 fxe6 23.Ng6 looks pretty good but you also must consider 22...g5; 22...g5 23.Qg3 with multiple threats. I don't have any more time to look at this. I'd say 22.Bxe6 looks best but I cannot be sure. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Tiggler: Well my choice was 22 Nxf7+. After 22...Rxf7, black is lost, as others have posted, so I thought 22...Qxf7 best. Then 23 Bxe6+, and then I found a move for black that others don't seem to have considered: 23... Qg6. Now the Q does not run out of squares and covers several squares that the white Q would like to use. My continuation is then a bit unclear, though I think that white should be able to prove a win: 24 Rd1+ Kc7
25 Qf4+ Kc6
26 Bxf6 Rd8 (...Rxf6 27 Bd7#)
27 Qf3+ Kb5
28 a4+ and I have M6 (No engine used however)
Comments? |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Bartimaeus: <Tiggler> Interesting line with Qg6. However, i think there can be improvements from move 27 onwards. Why not the simple Bxd8 instead of Qf3+ ? 27. Bxd8 Rxd8 28. Rxd8 and now white is threatening mate in 2 (Bd5+ Kb5 Qa4#). Of course, white has to be careful of black's mate threat on g2 but overall it seems better to keep the Queen on the fourth rank as it can facilitate mates via Qa4 or Qc4 apart from the overall better mobility. |
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| Jan-24-13 | | Abdel Irada: Thanks for the clarification, <maxfrank>. Incidentally, your note about Nietzche reminds me of a famous (and thoroughly groan-worthy) graffito: "God is dead.
— Fred
Fred is dead.
— God" |
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| Jan-24-13 | | nolanryan: there are many wisdoms here in this game of chess we call life. starting with Rd1 not Nxf7 |
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Kibitzing
sac: 23.Nxf7