< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|May-26-06|| ||square dance: my favorite quote from that interview: kramnik on tal-<Analyzing his chess games is tantamount to discussing what God looks like.>|
|May-26-06|| ||Broon Bottle: <Mormonchess>
Thanks for the Kramnik link. It's fascinating to read what he has to say on his great predecessors.
|May-26-06|| ||mormonchess: <Broon Bottle> You are welcome. I also learned quite a few things from the article.|
<square dance> I liked that quote too. I think it shows that Kramnik is a philosopher in addition to being a world champion in chess. Now that I know more about him, I am starting to like him more.
|May-27-06|| ||Confuse: thanks <mormonchess>, i enjoyed that article immensly. kramniks thoughts on previous world champions can only make me smile because of their truth. Tal the alien huh? cool. : )|
|May-27-06|| ||Zebra: <mormonchess> Very nice link - thank you.|
|May-29-06|| ||Marvol: I accidentally saw the game below the other day, and the latter stages (starting with Karpov's 26. Rc1-c8!) bear an uncanny resemblance with this Kramnik game.|
Karpov vs Kasparov, 1990
|May-30-06|| ||Marvol: 26. Rc1-c6 that is :-/|
|Jun-05-06|| ||Quintiliano: KRAMNIK KRAMINK KRAMNIK!!
I cannot wait for Kramnik-Topalov.
It looks to me like a 2006 re-enactment of the Petrosian-Spasski matches back in Sixties. What we don't know is whether this will be Tigran-Boris #1966 (Petrosian won) or #1969 (Spasski won).
|Jun-05-06|| ||Shajmaty: <Mateo>: Nice analysis, as usual. My comments.|
15. Bg5 <Topalov played 15.Bh6 against Psakhis and won> Even better seems to be 15. g4, Nc5; 16. g5 as Filippov played against Van Wely in 2004 (FIDE WCh).
Bxf3!? <questionable: Black gives the Bishop pair for a weakening of the White's King side pawns. 15...b5 looks natural> Valid alternatives are 15...Re8, 15...Rfc8 or 15...Nc5. The natural 15...b5 meets 16. Bxd7, Rxd7; 17. cxb5, axb5; 18. Qb4, but Black has enough compensation for the pawn. I believe 15...Bxf3? to be the only (big) mistake by Aronian in this game. Terrific lesson by Kramnik!
|Jun-05-06|| ||Shajmaty: <s4life: Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you think Kramnik found 15.Bg5 (after following their previous game exactly up to this point) over the board, you are being naive.> So you believe 15. Bg5 is an improvement over Topalov - Psakhis (15. Bh6) or Filippov - Van Wely (15. g4)? Cause I do not...|
|Jun-05-06|| ||Shajmaty: <Montreal1666: Why did Aronian grant him the passed pawn by the capture 20)...Rxc6 ?> What to play, then?|
20...f6; 21. Be3.
20...Rfc8; 21. Bxe7, Rxc6; 22. dxc6, Rxc6; 23. Qe4.
20...Qb7; 21. Qe4.
|Jun-05-06|| ||s4life: <So you believe 15. Bg5 is an improvement over Topalov - Psakhis (15. Bh6) or Filippov - Van Wely (15. g4)? Cause I do not...>|
It was in this game... Bg5 was the key move to get the passer 5 moves later. Aronian didn't play the best moves to counter white's plan.
|Jun-06-06|| ||The Phantom: Beatifull game here?
I see a terrible move from Aronian, <20Rxc6>? letting that pawn pass..
even for a 1400 beginner like me was obvious that pawn was passable, and the obvious move was not to eat it.
Even 2756 players can make stupid moves like that one.
|Jun-06-06|| ||whatthefat: <The Phantom: even for a 1400 beginner like me was obvious that pawn was passable, and the obvious move was not to eat it.|
Even 2756 players can make stupid moves like that one.>
I really can't stand these sorts of comments. To presume that the world number 3 didn't realise that he'd be creating a passed pawn for his opponent, and simply overlooked the plain realities of the position "obvious even for a 1400 beginner", it just absurd. Evidently it was Aronian's opinion upon a deep assesment of the position, that the alternatives were no more promising. I don't think that the cursory glances of a bunch of amateurs really compare.
|Jun-06-06|| ||Surrealist: And another point is that the pawn is not supported by another pawn, it could be very well a weakness too.|
|Jun-06-06|| ||Karpova: <whatthefat: I really can't stand these sorts of comments. To presume that the world number 3 didn't realise that he'd be creating a passed pawn for his opponent, and simply overlooked the plain realities of the position "obvious even for a 1400 beginner", it just absurd.>|
yes, that's true. If he thinks that 20...Rc6: was bad he should present alternatives to us. But all he wants to do is grab the chance to feel superior to the World's Nr. 3 and debase Kramnik's achievement at the same time.
|Jun-06-06|| ||TheAlchemist: Perhaps 28...Be5 wasn't the best move, allowing Ba5 later. I'm not sure what to play instead, but perhaps Aronian should have kept his Bishop on the a7-g1 diagonal. Maybe 28...Rb6, attacking the Queen and the Pawn, although it can't be captured. Black might even sacrifice the Queen after something like 29.Qa2 (to play Ba5) Be5 (or f6, g7) 30.Ba5 Rxc6 31.Bxc7 Rxc1 32.Kg2 Rxc7. |
Of course, this isn't forced, White might continue with something like 29.Qa5 instead, 29...Be5 30.f4 Bd6 31.Be3 Rb8 32.Qxc7 Bxc7. If now 31.Qa2, then 31...Qc8 gets out of the possible pin. Again, not forced, just a suggestion.
|Jun-06-06|| ||Shajmaty: <The Phantom: I see a terrible move from Aronian, <20Rxc6>? letting that pawn pass..> As I wrote to <Montreal1666>, what to play, then? 20...f6? 20...Rfc8? 20...Qb7? See below... I agree with <Karpova>: one "should present alternatives"!|
|Jun-06-06|| ||Shajmaty: <TheAlchemist: Perhaps 28...Be5 wasn't the best move, allowing Ba5 later.> Maybe not, but White's advantage is huge anyway, due to the pawn at c6.|
<Maybe 28...Rb6, attacking the Queen and the Pawn> Yes, 28...Rb6 or 28...Kg7; 29. f4 are able to resist a little bit longer.
<White might continue with something like 29.Qa5 instead, 29...Be5 30.f4 Bd6 31.Be3 Rb8 32.Qxc7 Bxc7. If now 31.Qa2, then 31...Qc8 gets out of the possible pin.> 29. Qa5 looks stronger than 29. Qa2. Better for White is keeping his Queen: 32. Qc3! or even 32. Qa1!
|Jun-06-06|| ||TheAlchemist: <Shajmaty> Thanks for your thoughts, I agree Black's defensive task was very very hard, so it's only human to break down sooner or later (Black was probably in time trouble by then), especially against such a version of Kramnik.|
|Jun-06-06|| ||Shajmaty: <Karpova: If he thinks that 20...Rc6: was bad he should present alternatives to us.> The only viable alternative seems to be 20...Rfc8:|
21. Bxe7, Rxc6; 22. dxc6, Rxc6; 23. Qe4, Rb6 and White's task is harder than in the game.
21. Rdc1, e6!; 22. Bd8, Rxc6; 23. dxc6, Qa8; 24. c7, Qxf3; 25. Qe7, Bd4 equalizes. Nice variation provided by GM Golubev. How about 22. Qe4?
|Jun-09-06|| ||acirce: <Q: I had the opportunity to talk to Levon Aronian a while ago and one of the questions that came up was with regard to your third game win against him. Specifically I asked him about the pawn on c6. He said that allowing that pawn to arrive there was not a miscalculation but more a bad assessment. He thought that eventually he would be able to round up the pawn and win with his better structure. However it seems that you had a better understanding of the position. In addition to this we considered the slight resemblance to the position after 26.Rc6! in the famous Karpov-Kasparov 35th World Championship 1990 Game 17. Did you consider that your move 20.Rc6 would give you the win in that position? |
A: Well in fact I could have taken the e7 pawn, and be a clear pawn up but there are certain technical problems to win that type of position, so I decided to keep equal pawns, but already when I played 20.Rc6 I had considered the ideas of transferring my bishop to a5, and play a4 and bring my queen to b4 and invade the queenside. After the game I analysed with the computer and I couldnít see another way to continue, but it is rather logical. I couldnít calculate to the end but itís a matter of intuition, partly calculation, partly intuition and good assessment of the position. It should normally work, I mean with such a strong pawn on c6. I like pawns on the seventh rank (laughs).>
|Jun-09-06|| ||Ingolf: The thought of Kramnik laughing himself to pieces over seventh rank pawns is just what you need on a cloudy afternoon.|
|Jun-09-06|| ||Shajmaty: <acirce>: Very nice link, very appropriate for this page, Ulf. Thanks a lot!|
|Apr-17-11|| ||unsound: Coming to the conversation 5 years late...it's interesting that in the interview acirce links to Kramnik doesn't respond to the mention of the parallel game Karpov vs Kasparov, 1990 although obviously he must have been very familiar with it. But Kramnik's version has the added spice of kingside threats on the dark squares after 33.Qd4, threatening Bc3 and very bad things on the long diagonal. This is the sort of game that makes me wonder why Kramnik's detractors don't look more closely at what they might have to learn from him.|
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