< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jun-01-06|| ||al wazir: I'm not sure I agree with Chernev about 19. Qf2 Qxf2+, because after 20. Kxf2 Nd3+ 21. Ke3! Rxc1 (21...Nxc1 22. Nc3) 22. Rxc1 Nxc1 23. Nc3 g5 (threatening Bf4+) 24. g3 (preventing Bf4+), the black is trapped|
|Jun-01-06|| ||jajaja: can anyone with an engine analyze the position if white plays 14.Qd2 please? I guess if black plays c4 now white can play Ne2|
|Jun-01-06|| ||sharpnova: chernev is wrong.
after 19. Qf2 white is winning.
|Jun-01-06|| ||Manic: According to Fritz, the sacrifices Tarrasch makes in this game are not as good as it seems. After ...Bg4 evaluation is +2.09 after Qd2, not Qc2. And even after Qc2, ...Qh4 gives a +2.41 evaluation. 18... Nc6 is apparently better than Rc8 with -.38 compared to +1.06 for ...Rc8. e5 hands advantage to black, when Bf4 was apparently better. Take note however that fritz is not perfect so as a result it cannot calculate 20 moves ahead, so perhaps Tarrasch's sacrifices were sound?|
|Jun-01-06|| ||jajaja: <Manic> its true but I think a normal PC fritz would defeat Tarrasch without any problem.|
|Jun-01-06|| ||EmperorAtahualpa: Strange that nobody has kibitzed on this game before. It's a gem! Obviously Tarrasch was toying around with his opponent.|
Can anyone explain the pun for me please? Thanks.
|Jun-01-06|| ||Microbe: I think it's like the well used phrase "wear and tear". No?|
|Jun-01-06|| ||borisbadenoff: <al wazir: I'm not sure I agree with Chernev about 19. Qf2 Qxf2+, because after 20. Kxf2 Nd3+ 21. Ke3! Rxc1 (21...Nxc1 22. Nc3) 22. Rxc1 Nxc1 23. Nc3 g5 (threatening Bf4+) 24. g3 (preventing Bf4+), the black is trapped>
<sharpnova: chernev is wrong.
after 19. Qf2 white is winning.>
I don't think so.
After 21. Ke3 comes Nb4 and not Rxc1. And white is losing
|Jun-01-06|| ||borisbadenoff: After 14. Qc2 c5 is to play immediatly.
But why should Tarrasch have cared. he was obviously better than his opponent. So no matter how unsafe his play he would win
|Jun-01-06|| ||Whitehat1963: What an incredible finish!|
|Jun-01-06|| ||Hidden Skillz: i remember seeing these positions in laskers book and if im correct he spoke about this play by tarrasch as being sound|
|Jun-01-06|| ||al wazir: <borisbadenoff: After 21. Ke3 comes Nb4 and not Rxc1. And white is losing>|
All right, I'll bite: 19. Qf2 Qxf2+ 20. Kxf2 Nd3+ 21. Ke3 Nb4 22. Na3. Now what?
The complication in my line comes if black pushes his b , driving away the on c3. My analysis: if 21...Nxc1 22. Nc3 b4, then 23. Nd5 Ne2 24. h3 Ng3 (24...Bh5 25. g4 Ng3 26. Rf3, and black has to lose a piece) 25. hxg4 Nxf1+ 26. Rxf1.
Anyway, there's way more play in the position than Chernev implied. But hey! with a name like his you know he isn't going to give white a fair shake.
|Jun-01-06|| ||borisbadenoff: Hmm alright. I see. Probably advantage for white yes.
Maybe the knight in longterm is able to regain a pawn.
But even then white is still better.
|Jun-01-06|| ||chessmoron: This is a beauty. Very dazzling by Tarrasch.|
|Jun-01-06|| ||kevin86: A sparkling finish! Black captures the white queen-but when white tries to do likewise,he is immediately mated. Neat mate with two bishops-merely black's only remaining forces,not counting pawns.|
|Jun-01-06|| ||Jack Kerouac: The dogmas of Tarrasch bark up the wrong tree,
The insights of Fischer,
will set your game free.
|Jun-01-06|| ||AniamL: If 25.g3, then 25...Bxe2 26.gxh4 Rf3!
Right? I might have overlooked something as I don't have a board or program in front of me.
|Jun-01-06|| ||patzer2: Chernev didn't have the benefit of a strong computer program. After 14. Qd2! White can organize his defense for a won position. <jajaja> I haven't subjected the position to a long and deep analysis on Fritz 8, but what I've seen convinces me White can win the piece and then exchange the extra material back to emerge at least the exchange up (+2.00) with a won position.|
There's a lot of wishful thinking in this old analysis.
|Jun-01-06|| ||dakgootje: Beaty indeed. Had my thoughts at some of the moves whether black would still be able to win, but he completed the game with a nice finish|
|Jun-01-06|| ||LPeristy: I wonder if white was releaved to find that he had weathered the storm and was up material only to find that he was suddenly mated.|
|Jun-01-06|| ||goldenbear: I think Tarrasch knew what he was doing. This game is a work of art. He wouldn't have played like this against Lasker.|
|Jun-01-06|| ||jperr75108: An impressive performance by Tarrasch. He controls the game for the whole game from the very beginning with black.|
|May-30-07|| ||Peligroso Patzer: Some of the tactical motifs from this game remind me of those from an even more spectacular attacking gem, "Rubinstein's Immortal". I am providing a link to the Rubinatein game for anyone who may not be familiar with, or who may wish to take another look at it:|
Rotlewi vs Rubinstein, 1907
|Jun-06-07|| ||Dr. Siggy: In his famous "Tarrasch's Best Games of Chess", New York 1949, pp. 370-1, Fred Reinfeld wrote the following words as an introduction to this particular game: "The Breslau Variation, with its numerous scintillating possibilities, is a line of play which is particularly suitable for adoption against an amateur. Tarrasch was of course a past master of the brilliant resources of the variation, which apparently gives White an all too difficult game for over-the-board play".
I'm afraid I can't agree with <patzer2> when he says that, after 14. Qd2, White can organize his defense for a won position: games such as <Wolf vs Tarrasch, Teplitz-Schoenau 1922> and <Wolf vs Tarrasch, Carlsbad 1923> clearly demonstrate that it is not so...|
I think <Manic> is right pointing out as the best move in the position 18...Nc6! instead of 18...Rc8. But I won't go as far as <sharpnova> claiming that, after 19. Qf2, White is winning: with the help of "Fritz 8", I've come to the conclusion that, after 19.Qf2 Qxf2+ 20.Kxf2 Nd3+ 21.Ke3 Nb4! (suggested by <borisbadenoff>) 22.Na3 Be7! 23.Kf4 h5 24.h3 Be2! 25.Rh1 Nd3+ 26.Ke3 Nxc1 27.h4 Nd3!! 28.Kxe2 Nxb2 29.Rh3 b4 30.Nb1 Rc2+! 31.Nd2 Nc4 32.Rd3 Nb2! 33.Rb3 a5! 34.Rb1 Na4! 35.Ra1 Nb2!, the best that White can get is a draw by repetitions of moves!
In my humble opinion, Tarrasch's final combination is one of the most beautiful illustrations of what we can achieve with two Bishops against a castled position!...
|Nov-17-07|| ||kellmano: <Chernev: If 19.Qf2 Qxf2+, or if 19.Qb3 Nf3+ wins>|
I wish i was so well respected i could get away with if 19.Qf2 Qxf2+
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