< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Aug-26-12|| ||scormus: Anyone, even me can spot 24 ... Qxe3 in a puzzle, but it would take real nerve for me to play it OTB.|
<sevenseaman> A bit like rock climbing don't you think? I mean, it's one thing for an ordinary guy like me to do a VS with top rope security. But doing it free? Would scare the willies out of me
|Aug-26-12|| ||James D Flynn: Black is a piece up but White has serious threats against the Black K: 25.Rxf6+ Kg8 26.Rg6+ Kf7 27.Qf5+ Qf6 28.Qxf6#.
Black must take immediate action to stop the discovered check or create escape squares for his K or start his own attacks against the White K: 24.-
.Qxe3+ 25.Qxe3(if Bxe3 Rxe3 26.Qxe3(if Qf1 Re1# 27.Kh1 Rxf1+ 28.Rxf1 Kxg3 and Black has R,N ,and B versus Whites R and N. Whites K-side united pawns will create problems in the endgame but Black has his own passed pawn at d5 and should win the endgame) Bxe3+ 27.Kf1 Kxg6 and Black emerges with R,N,and 2Bs against Rand N and is clearly winning) Rxe3 26.Bxc5 Rd2(if bxc5(if Kxg6 27.Bxe3 and pieces are equal but White should win with his extra P) 27.Rg3 and White has 2Rs and N against R,N.and B and should win the endgame so Blacks attack appears insufficient)27. Bxf8 Kxg6 28.Nf3 pieces are now equal and White retains his extra pawn aian the attack appears insufficient.
..Ne4 25.Rxc6 now pieces are equal but the pinned N has blocked Blacks threats against the White K and Whites extra pawns should win.
Now for the game.|
|Aug-26-12|| ||James D Flynn: I still believe the stronger defense 25.Qxe3 wins for White.|
|Aug-26-12|| ||perfidious: < James D Flynn: I still believe the stronger defense 25.Qxe3 wins for White.>|
After the forced 25.Qxe3 Rxe3 26.Bxc5 bxc5 27.f5, Black has 27....Re7 because 28.Ra6 does not regain the piece following 28....Bb5 29.Raxf6 Re1+ 30.Kf2 Re2+ 31.Kf3 Rxf6 and ....Rxd2.
|Aug-26-12|| ||scormus: Now I have a chance to look at it again, fortified by a couple of beers and a glass or 3 of wine, I come back to what had bothered me from the beginning. Even if B can hold his nerve in the Q-sac-accepted line 25 Bxe3, can B be certain W wont find a better reply? Namely <Jim's> 25 Qxe3.
Rxe3 26 Bxc5 bxc5 27 f5.
I thought B's best continuation would be 27 ... Be8. On shallow search Rybka thinks so too and continues 28 Rxa7+ Kh8 h6+ Kg8 which she assessed as a clear advantage to B (but not IMO an obviously winning one.) I must admit I'd expect a few anxious moments if I had to play it out OTB. I guess that's what makes it a Sunday puzzle
|Aug-26-12|| ||Coigach: I had 3 initial candidates - Bb5, Bxd4 & Qe4.
Looking at the last line first, I soon saw it doesn't work: 25.Nxe4 de 26.Qc3 Kxg6 and I didn't think B had done any more than escape the immediate loss. In fact he is losing e.g. 27.f5 Kxf5 28.Bxf6, but I didn't notice this as by now I had seen and started calculating a 4th candidate and the only winning move 24...Qxe3+.
Like others, I didn't see that 25.Qxe3 is the best defence, only looking at 25...Rxe3 26.Bxe3?? (26.Bxc5 is correct and B is winning but it is not easy at all, as has been pointed out) Bxe3+ 27.Kf1 Kxg6.
I also missed 26.Rxa7 in the game line, but it doesn't save W anyway.
Overall, I was pleased to have seen enough to be ready to play 24...Qxe3+ over the board in about 20 minutes (didn't bother to take more than a cursory glance at my other 2 candidates), and feel that merits a three quarter credit for this Sunday puzzle.
|Aug-26-12|| ||Tiggler: I think the best move is not 24...Qxe3+, but 24...Bb5. White's most dangerous looking reply, pointed out by <morfishine>, is 25 Qf5, but after ... Bd7!, the white Q has to retreat along the b1-h7 diagonal to preserve the R on g6.|
If 26 Qd3, where she started from, then ... Qxe3+. All the previous variations still work for black, but not for white! Because after 27 Qxe3 Rxe3 28 Bxc5 bxc5 <JimfromProvidence>'s variation, 29 f5? Bxf5.
So now we have to consider other variations, in which white's Q moves to c2 on b1, either with or without a visit to f5 first. That will determine whether the black QB is on d7 or b5. So four more main variations to come, but not in this message!
|Aug-26-12|| ||James D Flynn: I played over my analysis on the board and found I was in error on move 27 after 25.Qxe3 Rxe3 26.Bxc5 bxc5 my 27.Rg3 loses The correct f5 was given by Jim from New Providence and appears to win for White.|
|Aug-26-12|| ||FSR: 24...Qxe3+! 25.Bxe3 Rxe3 is strong like bull.|
|Aug-26-12|| ||WhiteRook48: 24...Qxe3+! 25 Bxe3 Rxe3 winning back the queen was my answer. I don't think I've gotten a Sunday puzzle right in four months.|
|Aug-26-12|| ||James D Flynn: OOPs wrong again! Patriots Bb5 does indeed appear to win for Black:eg 28.Nf3 appear better than R a6 but Black still wins by pushing his d pawn,|
|Aug-26-12|| ||rilkefan: <<Tiggler>: I think the best move is not 24...Qxe3+, but 24...Bb5. White's most dangerous looking reply, pointed out by <morfishine>, is 25 Qf5, but after ... Bd7!, the white Q has to retreat along the b1-h7 diagonal to preserve the R on g6.>|
26.Qg5 appears to decide the issue.
|Aug-26-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: <scormus> Good to see you back on the daily puzzle, dude!|
|Aug-26-12|| ||Tiggler: <rilkefan> Indeed it does. Thank you!|
|Aug-26-12|| ||njchess: I got this one! It was also my first line of analysis. The c5 bishop gave it away. Now, I can sleep well. LOL|
|Aug-26-12|| ||sevenseaman: Yesterday (its already another day here) I came back exhausted and have not been able to write a solution to the Sunday's conundrum (as promised). The following line of analysis kept on troubling me;|
<24...Qxe3 25. Qxe3 Rxe3 26. Bxc5 bxc5 27. f5 > and I am frustrated and nowhere close to the putative win that I really thought was waiting to be grabbed by Black when I gave him <24...Qxe3>. I only see a nebulous edge for Black & I am at my wits end to find a clear win.
So I am going to have a look...
My views largely coincide with those of <Jimfromprovidence> <once> and <Patriot>.
If there was any doubt in my confusion, I was finally put in my pitiable place by the barber in in the youtube link, tellingly provided by the impish <morfishine>.
I am now only about one hour away from the friendly Monday 'challenge' and have little hesitation in closing the Sunday shop w/o a definitive transaction.
|Aug-26-12|| ||TheBish: Y Zherebukh vs A Shneider, 2011|
Black to play (24...?) "Insane", Black is up a piece for two pawns.
Considering that I found the winning idea almost immediately (which of course had to be checked out over a few minutes), I wouldn't put this in the "insane" category. Could it be that calling it "insane" made the key move easier for me to find, looking immediately for a bizarre or insane looking move? Maybe! On the other hand, three black pieces are aiming at e3, either directly (the queen) or indirectly (Re8 and Bc5), so a combination on that square is something that should at least be considered.
24...Qxe3+!! 25. Bxe3
The most natural move here, but pretty much forced, as the only other move to consider is 25. Qxe3 Rxe3, when White should play 26. Bxc5 (not 26. Bxe3? Bxe3+ 27. Kh1 Kxg6) bxc5! when Black just wins a pawn and simplifies by trading queens. Another try here (after 25...Rxe3) is 26. Rxf6, but Black wins easily after 26...Bxd4! because of the dual threats of 27...Rxf6 and 27...Re1# (double check).
25...Rxe3 26. Rxa7+
White has a dilemma here, since 26...Re1# was threatened, and if instead 26. Qxe3 Bxe3+ 27. Kh1 Kxg6 loses as described above, and if 26. Qf1 Re1+ 27. Kh1 Rxf1+ 28. Rxf1 Kxg6 Black wins another piece as well as a pawn.
At this point, White could resign, as he has nothing better than 27. Qf1 Re1+ 28. Kh1 Rxf1+ 29. Nxf1 Kxg6, similar to the note above. It appears that White should have played 25. Qxe3 Rxe3 26. Bxc5 bxc5, as I mentioned earlier.
|Aug-26-12|| ||sevenseaman: <scormus> You comment has really gone over my head. VS?? The only rock climbing I have ever tried is when I poured some in a glass of neat whiskey.|
I may be lacking a sense of humor but I am really happy to see you back in the ranks. Welcome, and do not go AWOL.
|Aug-26-12|| ||Moonwalker: Anyone else dismissed the queen sack as too easy for Sunday? I did! At least initially!
Looked at other moves first, my favorite was <24... Ne4> which purposely allows <25. Rg7+ Qxg7 26. Bxg7> as a more insane line. Finally I looked at <24... Qxe3> for @#$%s and giggles and lo and behold, it works! Not decisive but gives black an advantage.. Good enough!|
|Aug-27-12|| ||rilkefan: I might be biased having seen the stockfish line, but 27.f5 Be8 doesn't look that hard to evaluate as much better for black to me. Black is up a bishop for two pawns, his kside is now safe, f5 is weak (as is b3), Ng4 is a threat while Nd7 is a good consolidation, white needs to take care of his king, and d5 threatens to run.|
|Aug-27-12|| ||Abdel Irada: <Simplify, simplify>|
Black throws a grenade in the center of White's game by the thematic desperado 24. ...♕xe3. Surprisingly, however, all he achieves against best defense is to win a pawn and simplify the position. But since he already has a bishop for two pawns, and simplifying leads to an easier and safer position, these achievements must not be underrated.
White cannot ignore the check and threat to his undefended queen and has two replies:
(1) 25. ♗xe3?, ♖xe3!
Black threatens the queen and, worse, offers a fatal double check with 26. ...♖e1#. White has a check, but after 26. ♖xa7, ♗d7, he has made no progress and still faces twin threats that cannot be parried. He must now return the queen with 27. ♕xe3, ♗xe3 , and Black wins because the rook on g6 also falls.
(2) 25. ♕xe3, ♖xe3
(2.1) 26. ♗xe3?, ♗xe3
(2.2) 26. ♗xc5, bxc5
(2.2.1) 27. ♖xa7?, ♔xg6
(2.2.2) 27. f5, ♖e7;
28. ♖a5, ♗e8;
29. ♖g3, ♖c7 .
In this line, which seems to represent White's best play, we see the logical result of Black's sacrifice: Black still has an extra piece, has won back one of the two pawns White had in compensation, and has eliminated all real threats of dangerous counterplay.
|Jun-25-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: Miraculous saves in apparently hopeless positions are always aesthetically pleasing (unless you're on the wrong side of the board)|
|Jun-25-18|| ||Ironmanth: Some stunning geometry in the final position! Thanks for this one!|
|Jun-25-18|| ||morfishine: <Patriot> Great, you are back to full member! Nice avatar! |
Whenever Kaspy gets that look in his eye, look out! lol
|Dec-28-18|| ||Messiah: After taking the queen on e3 with the queen, the rook recaptures, and after a mutual taking on c5 I don't see how black's chances are bad. This is liquidating into a won endgame pretty concretely: black's only need is to do a ♖e7 somewhere to protect the ♙a7, and then the black king can hide successfully in, for example, f7.|
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