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| Mar-19-11 | | Fanques Fair: 25-f4 !, Qf6 !, 26-Qd2, Rae8, 27-Bf3 !, gxf4 28-gxf4, Rxe1+, 29- Rxe1,Rxe1+,30-Kxe1, and I think White is slighty better. |
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| Mar-19-11 | | fab4: @<Polarmis>
Re Kf1
After Carlsen's 24..Nd7 can't black just answer an f4 push with Qf6 ect..? Positionally krammnik moving his king to f1 does'nt make sense to me. I can see he'sprotecting the rook on e1, but just ignoring what will happen on the f file. |
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| Mar-19-11 | | fab4: lol.. you beat me to it <Fanques Fair> .. I'm just using white wine tho! |
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| Mar-19-11 | | Fanques Fair: Fab4 , I also love the Beatles, but this variation was without software assitance. :) |
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| Mar-19-11 | | fab4: I can't make 31..Nd3 work. 32.Kg1 Nf2 and whites still alive as far as I can see. 32.Kg1 Ne1 33.fe and i don't like 33..Ng2. So 31..Ng4 must be the move. 32.Kg1 and I found 32..Qf4 which seems to win. Only other move I can see for white is 32.Qc4 but then 32..Qf2+ wins. |
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| Mar-19-11 | | fab4: <Fanques Fair> My apologies. |
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| Mar-19-11 | | Garech: Superb game - I was reminded of
Kramnik vs Carlsen, 2008
-Garech |
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| Mar-19-11 | | Fanques Fair: Fab4, 30- Kxe1, Ne5, 32, Qf2, is that the variation ? |
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| Mar-19-11 | | cjgone: After 31...Nd3, if white moves his rook, Rxe2, kxe2, leaves a mating net. Otherwise white loses the rook for a horse |
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| Mar-19-11 | | luzhin: Kramnik's 27.Qb7? was really asking for it. By playing his Q back to a6 two moves later he recognised that his Q was needed in defence but by then it was too late. |
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Mar-19-11
 | | Penguincw: Kramnik lost with the white pieces against Carlsen again.Kramnik's other losses with the white pieces against Carlsen : http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches.... |
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| Mar-19-11 | | Fanques Fair: 25- Re2 should also be considered. |
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Mar-19-11
 | | Fusilli: <Fanques Fair: 25-f4 !, Qf6 !, 26-Qd2, Rae8, 27-Bf3 !, gxf4 28-gxf4, Rxe1+, 29- Rxe1,Rxe1+,30-Kxe1, and I think White is slighty better.> But at the end of that variation Black has 30...Qh4+ winning a pawn, right? Positionally, White's king is more exposed than Black's king, and the Black knight seems to be a better piece than the White bishop, which is blocked by its own pawn on d5. The continuation could be 31.Kd1 Qxh3 32.Qe2 b5 (with the idea of ...c4, Nc5) and I think Black is the one who's better. |
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| Mar-19-11 | | fab4: <cjgone: After 31...Nd3, if white moves his rook, Rxe2, kxe2, leaves a mating net.> But white does'nt have move his rook. just Kg1.. |
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| Mar-20-11 | | newzild: <fab4> I agree with you that the win is not so obvious. 31...Nd3
32. Kg1 (your suggestion) Nxe1
33. fxe3 Nxg2 (what else?)
34. Rxg2
I can't see a win here for Black. Let's see if he can improve on move 32. 31...Nd3
32. Kg1 Rxe2
33. Rxe2
And now 33...Nxf2 wins a pawn, but Black is also losing a pawn on b6. With White's queen out of play on the Q-side, Black probably has a winning K-side attack, but the position doesn't look resignable to me. Black can also try:
33...Nf4
34. R (any) Nxg2
35. Kxg2 Qf3+
And again White is losing a pawn, but I don't think his position is resignable. Let's have another try at move 33.
33...Qa1+
34. Bf1 Qd4
This is starting to look nasty because of the pin on f2. Black can omit the check on a1 and play 33...Qd4 immediately. Again, though, White is losing a pawn and will be subject to an attack, but I don't believe the position is resignable. Anybody else want to have a crack at this? |
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| Mar-20-11 | | newzild: The more I look at the position the more I like the simple 31...Nxg4, when White's K-side is falling apart. Personally, I wouldn't resign as White, especially not in a rapid game. Mind you, I'm not 2800 elo. |
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| Mar-20-11 | | fab4: @<Newzild>
Yes it looks like 31..Ng4 is the move ..It threatens Qf2 and after 32.Kg1 Qf4 looks strong. |
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Mar-20-11
 | | tpstar: *SPOILER ALERT*
Fritz 7 Deep Position Analysis [20MB]:
click for larger view1) 31 ... Nxg4
a) 32. Qc4 Rg3 33. Qe4 Ne3+ 34. Kg1 Rxg2+  [-12.34/19] b) 32. Qc4 Rxe2 33. Qxe2 Qd4 34. Bf3 Rxf3 [-9.78/16] 2) 31 ... Rg3 32. Rc2 Rxg2 33. Kxg2 Qf3+ 34. Kg1 Qxg4+ [-9.41/14] 3) 31 ... Qf4 32. Rd2 Nf3 33. Bxf3 Rxf3 34. Qe2 Rxf2+ [-8.16/15] *****
After 31 ... Nxg4 then 32. Qc4 is an attempt to get back on defense, hitting the Ng4. On other moves, like 32. a5?, Black has 32 ... Qxf2+! 33. Rxf2 Rxf2+ 34. Kg1 Rxe1+ mopping up. Nice to see Carlsen doing well with a QID formation. |
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| Mar-20-11 | | fab4: @<tpstar>
you can take your 'Fritz' engine and !! lol .. as for your 'spoiler' alert.. well nothings been spoiled chap. Read the thread.. Ng4 ect was pinned up on da board looong before you appeared with your lil ole computer |
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| Mar-20-11 | | notyetagm: <PROPHYLACTIC PLAY> http://www.thechessmind.net/storage... < 22.cxd5 Black's position is slightly more comfortable here, but it's not much. For the moment, at least, White's bishop is a little bad, the pawn on d5 could be a problem under circumstances, and White's g-pawn in particular may have gone a little too far. If, however, White can safely execute a plan with e4 and f4, aiming to push through with e5, then White could end up better. The position is not a stable one. 22...Qe7 23.Qd3 g5 Carlsen shows that he is fully aware of this White plan, and takes radical steps to prevent it. 24.Kf1 Still aiming for f4.
24...Nd7 Another clever prophylactic move.
25.a4 White in turn takes time out to prevent Black's queenside expansion starting with ...b5. [25.f4 Qf6! is the point.]
> |
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| Mar-20-11 | | notyetagm: Game Collection: PROPHYLACTIC THINKING Kramnik vs Carlsen, 2011 Carlsen plays 23 ... g5, 24 ... Nd7 to stop W central expansion |
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| Mar-21-11 | | PokerPro: Why not 23...re8?? |
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| Mar-21-11 | | Ulhumbrus: One justification for 25 Qd2 is that the move 24...Nd7 has lost time towards the move ...Ne4 attacking a Queen on d2. |
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| Mar-21-11 | | jmboutiere: After 25.a4 Joel Benjamin and Yasser Seirawan concluded that Kramnik is better, they accepted the idea of grabbing th "a" pawn, on ICC server connected with Amber server, live broadcast. They concluded that the subsecvent development of the game demonstrate that Carlsen is a genius. |
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| Mar-22-11 | | Ulhumbrus: As in the game Spassky vs Karpov, 1974 a Knight on f6 appears to complement well a pawn on g5. This may be a useful constellation of men to know about. |
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